New Tank And Starting To Cycle It...with Fish

[jimmies]

Hi,

We have recently bought a Fluval Edge 46l (which I have since read is not a very good choice....). We set it up properly and put in some driftwood and 4 plants. We also added the nutrafin cycle (which I have since read is next to useless) that came with the tank. After 3 days we went with a fish in cycle ( As the aquatics owner said this was the best way ) and added 4 Harlequin Rasboras to start with - we will have six in total in the end and maybe some shimps and/or snails.

The fish have been in the tank for 5 days and I've been doing a 20% water change ever other day. Today my API testing kit arrived and my first test results are:

Ammonia = 0.25ppm
Nitrite = 2ppm
Nitrate = 5ppm


How does this sound? and what should I do/expect in the coming weeks?

any advise would be great

 

[KittyKat]

The fish have been in the tank for 5 days and I've been doing a 20% water change ever other day. Today my API testing kit arrived and my first test results are:

Ammonia = 0.25ppm
Nitrite = 2ppm
Nitrate = 5ppm

How does this sound?

Pretty bad. You should be up to around 75-90% daily water changes by now. Fish in cycles are difficult and costly (both in terms of your time and the health of the fish). Ammonia over 0.25 ppm will cause long term harm to your pets, so your aim should be to keep it as close to 0 ppm as possible and to never let it reach 0.25 ppm. Nitrite will (in essence) suffocate your fish to death, so it should also be kept as close to 0 ppm as possible and should never be allowed to reach 0.25 ppm.

Ammonia poisoning will shorten the lifespan of your fish and will make them more susceptible to disease. Which reminds me that it is a good idea to keep medication in the cupboard anyway, as you never know when your fish might catch something. I always keep eSHa 2000 (best anti-microbial medication that I have ever come across: i.e. anti-bacteria, anti-fungal, anti-protozoa) and a small bottle of any anti-whitespot medication (I've got the one by Sera right now).

If I had your tank, I would return all the fish immediately, find a media donor to seed my filter and continue with a fish-less cycle which usually takes less time than a fish-in cycle and little or no lugging about of water. In the mean time, I would research harlequin rasboras and would quickly realise that the tank is too short for them (I can confirm that I have observed T. heteramorpha growing stunted in a 2 ft tank and growing healthy in a 3 ft tank in identical conditions from the same original stock), so would look at alternative species. I'd find out that it is the length and bottom area (and surface area) of the tank that matter for the stock, not the volume, and 43*26 cm is quite a small space to play around with (as you already know). Suitable species would include larger fish that do not swim around much (like Bettas, so a single male Betta splendens would work, or a pair of Betta simplex) or 8-10 small mid-water schoolers of one species (like the smaller microrasboras that mas out at 20-25 mm) would also work. Shrimp have little bio-load impact, so work well in tanks like yours, and you have the total number of fish that would be comfortable in your tank (6* 50 mm mid-water schoolers) spot on too.

and what should I do/expect in the coming weeks?

Lots of lugging about of water, probably 90% water changes 1-2 times per day; testing water every 12 hours, sometimes more often; worrying about the health of your new pets; hours of research about the species, nitrogen cycle, plants and aquaria in general. Fish in cycles usually take 6-8+ weeks, from what I have observed over the years, so you still have a very long way to go before your setup is ready.

If you plan to continue with the fish-in cycle, I extremely strongly recommend that you start using a dechlorinator which claims to "deal" with ammonia and nitrite. Seachem Prime is one that I know does, and apparently Kordon Amquel Plus also does. This is actually a useful thing to have for the first couple of months as a new fishkeeper anyway, or if your tap water contains chloramine.

Cutting down feeding to once every 2-3 days will help you manage the water parameters, and you can increase it back to 1-2 times per day once the filter can support the fish.

Have you tested your tap water parameters yet? They're quite useful to know. The tests to do are ammonia (pre and post dechlorination) and nitrite. Nitrate does not matter as it will probably be 0-5 ppm (which is great).

[…]put in some driftwood and 4 plants.

Are you sure that it's driftwood (which has spent a very long time in water) and not bogwood? Bogwood will leach tannins into the water, which may cause a pH crash that would stall your cycle, which is especially likely if the KH of your water is low (might want to ask your water company about the GH - general hardness - and KH - carbonate hardness - of your water, or get a KH and GH test kit set). What species are the plants?

After 3 days we went with a fish in cycle ( As the aquatics owner said this was the best way ) and added 4 Harlequin Rasboras to start with - we will have six in total in the end and maybe some shimps and/or snails.

This would be the point when I'd stop listening to the shop owner as they seem to care more about their profits than the health of the fish or how much work the cycle will be for you.

Would I be correct in assuming you already know about shooling and shoaling species and importance of numbers, as you plan to go for 6 rasboras? Also, the smallest species that looks like T. heteramorpha is T. espei, which max out at 30 mm instead of 50 mm, so would be a much better choice for your tank, although still less than ideal.

 

[jimmies]

I'll up the % of water change as of today, the wood was pre-soaked but I kept it in hot water for a day to make sure - next to no tannin came out in the bucket and my tank is very clear.

Not sure what the plants are....I have a reedy green and a little low lying bushy thing and a broader leafed on that is about 8in high.

We are going for a max of 6 of the Rosboras as they should grow to no more than 4cm according the shop....but also the need to be in a shoal

 

[KittyKat]

I'll up the % of water change as of today, the wood was pre-soaked but I kept it in hot water for a day to make sure - next to no tannin came out in the bucket and my tank is very clear.

Great, the water changes will help your fish a lot I mean more the long term leaching, rather than short term. If your wood really is driftwood, then it won't leach. Have you tried comparing photos online? Driftwood is usually grey and smooth, while bogwood is usually brown.

Not sure what the plants are....I have a reedy green and a little low lying bushy thing and a broader leafed on that is about 8in high.

Can you post photos? It sounds like the reedy green one is non-aquatic (marsh plant, it will rot if kept underwater in the long term), the bushy one is Hemianthus callitrichoides (which is quite demanding and requires special care) and the broad leafed one is an Amazon sword. If you can't post photos, have a go at IDing them from http/www.tropica.com/en/plants/plant-list-a-z.aspx , and most undemanding plants should do well for you: http/www.tropica.com/en/plants/difficulty/easy.aspx

We are going for a max of 6 of the Rosboras as they should grow to no more than 4cm according the shop....but also the need to be in a shoal

My harlequin rasboras were around 50 mm nose to tail (+- 2 mm). I measured them with a ruler, as I do with most of my fish, so the measurement is pretty accurate. The only fish I have ever heard called a "harlequin rasbora" that grew to 40 mm were Trigonostigma hengeli (the more correct common name for them is hengeli rasboras), but these are still too large for a 43 cm long tank. You are correct that shoaling and schooling species need to be kept in groups of at least 6, here is what I wrote about it before: http/blog.natureaquarium.co.uk/?p=380
…and earlier today for someone else:

Shoaling and schooling species […] should ideally be kept in groups of 10-15+, not 5-6; this is the bit that most people get quite wrong. In the wild, these fish live in groups of a few hundred to tens of thousands, so for them, it is usually "the more, the better". […] Fish can "count" up to a point: they can tell when they are on their own, when there is one other, when there are two others, etc, when there are many others, and the "minimum" number of fish that should be kept in a group of shoaling fish is when they count from "one other fish", "two other fish", "three other fish" to "many other fish", which in my experience is 6 (or higher for some species). So, this is why I say that a group of 6 is the absolute minimum that neons should be kept in. Then there is the "ideal minimum", which I see at the point at which fish go from "few many other fish" to "lots of many other fish", it is the point at which they feel more secure. This is usually around 10-15 individuals, which is why, if stocking from scratch, I think those are the only numbers that should be considered as a minimum because that is what's best for the fish.

If you are interested, I can go into more detail about my own experience of T. heteramorpha (harlequin rasbora) in a 2 ft and a 3 ft tank and how that affected the two groups of fish over the first year of their lives in home aquaria.

 

[Fish4]

Hi,

We have recently bought a Fluval Edge 46l (which I have since read is not a very good choice....). We set it up properly and put in some driftwood and 4 plants. We also added the nutrafin cycle (which I have since read is next to useless) that came with the tank. After 3 days we went with a fish in cycle ( As the aquatics owner said this was the best way ) and added 4 Harlequin Rasboras to start with - we will have six in total in the end and maybe some shimps and/or snails.

The fish have been in the tank for 5 days and I've been doing a 20% water change ever other day. Today my API testing kit arrived and my first test results are:

Ammonia = 0.25ppm
Nitrite = 2ppm
Nitrate = 5ppm


How does this sound? and what should I do/expect in the coming weeks?

any advise would be great

I am quite new to this, so am happy to be corrected over this...
After 5 days you have 2.0ppm nitrite!!! I think that indicates a rapid growth in healthy bacteria in your filter. I would say the tetra product has speeded things up somewhat. If you can do the water changes, using the seachem prime, you could have this under control easy enough. I would continue with the tetra start and follow the instructions to the letter, i have a feeling it might be a highly under rated product.

 

[KittyKat]

I am quite new to this, so am happy to be corrected over this...
After 5 days you have 2.0ppm nitrite!!! I think that indicates a rapid growth in healthy bacteria in your filter. I would say the tetra product has speeded things up somewhat. If you can do the water changes, using the seachem prime, you could have this under control easy enough. I would continue with the tetra start and follow the instructions to the letter, i have a feeling it might be a highly under rated product.

It could also be tap water nitrite or their tap water could have a higher-than-is-usual concentration of bacteria

 

[jimmies]

I tested again today at the same time and the results were

Ammonia = between 0 and 0.25
Nitrite = 0.25
nitrate = 5

Is this good or bad progress

....also it must be bogwood that I have in the tank as it is brown

The little bushy plant seems to be melting.....it is in a low light area so this won't be helping I guess

 

[jimmies]

I am quite new to this, so am happy to be corrected over this...
After 5 days you have 2.0ppm nitrite!!! I think that indicates a rapid growth in healthy bacteria in your filter. I would say the tetra product has speeded things up somewhat. If you can do the water changes, using the seachem prime, you could have this under control easy enough. I would continue with the tetra start and follow the instructions to the letter, i have a feeling it might be a highly under rated product.

It could also be tap water nitrite or their tap water could have a higher-than-is-usual concentration of bacteria

For fun I tested my tap water and it has a 0 nitrite level

 

[Fish4]

I tested again today at the same time and the results were

Ammonia = between 0 and 0.25
Nitrite = 0.25
nitrate = 5

Is this good or bad progress???

It's better than the last test, as the nitrIte has reduced by over 80%
Is this due to water changes, or maybe the filter removing it?
If you can keep those results the same until the tank has cycled, the fish will probably be ok.
Do water changes if necessary to keep Ammonia and Nitrite below 0.25
You should start to see the NitrAte level rise if this cycle is progressing well though.

 

[KittyKat]

Is this good or bad progress

Much better! As mentioned above, keep ammonia and nitrite as close to 0 ppm as possible (very small amounts are enough to cycle the filter) and never let either go above 0.25 ppm

The little bushy plant seems to be melting.....it is in a low light area so this won't be helping I guess

Melting? That's something that Crypts do more often than anything else.. if it's a Cryptocoryne, then it will recover. If it is something else, might be safer to take it out as it will contribute to ammonia.

 

[jimmies]

I tested again this morning right before my water change this time....and I had 0ppm ammonia but my nitrite had slipped to 0.5ppm - I'll see what it says later tonight

 

[Fish4]

I tested again this morning right before my water change this time....and I had 0ppm ammonia but my nitrite had slipped to 0.5ppm - I'll see what it says later tonight

That's just what you should expect to see, except it would have taken weeks without the Tetrastart!!!!
Looks like you're well on the way with the cycle now. You will need to keep up your water changes to keep the Nitrite below 0.25ppm, as it will more than likely increase rapidly until the second type of bacteria become established.
You should then start to see Nitrates increasing above your base reading of 5ppm.
When you go 7 days with 0ppm Amonia and 0ppm Nitrite your filter will be cycled for your stocking level.
If you add more stock, you will have to expect some amonia/nitrite spikes until extra bacteria are established again.
Again, it seems the Tetra product has made this possible in rapid time. Thanks for posting your results, and good luck. John

 

[KittyKat]

If you add more stock, you will have to expect some amonia/nitrite spikes until extra bacteria are established again.

Not necessarily In fact, I would say that it is unusual to see spikes if one has taken care to prepare for the new fish. For example, one can gently increase the feeding in the weeks leading up to new fish to provide more ammonia for the filter bacteria and drop feeding after the new fish are in so that less of the ammonia comes from food; one can plant the tank, as plants use up ammonia; one can leave a reasonable amount of time for the filter bacteria to "stabilise", i.e. for them to grow over the minimum that the current bio-load requires, etc.

 

[Fish4]

If you add more stock, you will have to expect some amonia/nitrite spikes until extra bacteria are established again.

Not necessarily In fact, I would say that it is unusual to see spikes if one has taken care to prepare for the new fish. For example, one can gently increase the feeding in the weeks leading up to new fish to provide more ammonia for the filter bacteria and drop feeding after the new fish are in so that less of the ammonia comes from food; one can plant the tank, as plants use up ammonia; one can leave a reasonable amount of time for the filter bacteria to "stabilise", i.e. for them to grow over the minimum that the current bio-load requires, etc.

This is where experience counts, I never thought of that. I'm learning all the time

 

[jimmies]

Today I've had my first 0ppm ammonia and nitrite.....so things are looking good