New Member & Betta Here!

Hi, little_mermaid,
1st - The bubble-blowing thing kind of has me wondering - are we actually sure that Loretta's a girl and not a plakat male assumed to be female because short-finned? Pet stores/employees do that a lot, and vice versa as well - even when you point out the little white egg tube underneath.

I am pretty sure she's a female...I mean I guess I could be wrong...I'll try to get some good pics of her tonight and let ya'll see for yourselves.

Does Loretta, assuming she's not an infant, (haven't seen first post and I'm working without a brain, as usual) have a little white tube underneath, showing that she'd stand by her man, rather than flashing out of accidental drag for a brawl?
This may not matter now, but if you ever decide to set up a sorority...

That whole paragraph confused me; what do you mean stand by her man?

I've just been reading the excellent advice you've been getting from some very knowledgeable people, and thought I'd mention that you can very often get used 10 gal. tanks very cheaply.
I've acquired several used 15's which I personally think are perfect for Bettas (rather have long 20's but they seem to be hard to come by out here) and which provide room, particularly in a planted tank, for other fish, especially if the Betta's introduced last, which reduces the problem of a territorial reaction.
This also gives you room to design the bottom, do themes if you like, put in lots of pretty plants which will help to keep your fish and water healthy, have fun.
You can have a watergarden in which your fish can enjoy a everchanging environment as her plants grow - possibly, if you wish, in a sorority of female Bettas.

I am tempted to get a 10-15 gallon 'cause I am very interested in a sorority...but at the time I don't have the room exactly, time, and money. Also, changing the water for a bigger tank would be more of a pain. I have trouble just changing my 3 gallon tank; I splash water everywhere!

By the way, the pygmy cats, in case you haven't noticed this yet, are also the cutest things in the known universe.
They're happiest in schools and once you've started watching 6 or 8 tiny cats shoaling and zipping around your tank...

I'll have to look 'em up/google 'em later! I'm at school right now and about to head to my next class! But they sound adorable!

I'm just trying to imagine my otos, around 2 inches long, in one of the little desk-top emergency tanks around that size that two young, (one still sick) little Bettas are recovering in, and I can't.
But I can all too easily imagine a bored Betta in a 3 gallon tank possibly harassing the heck out of other little fish with nowhere to get away to...

Um I am pretty positive Loretta is not gonna have any friends in her tank. Even though some folks still seem to think 3 would be fine in my tank. I am still not really convinced even though I am oh so tempted. But I want to do what is best for Loretta, and again, down the road, I might just get that 10-15 gallon tank!
 
Does Loretta, assuming she's not an infant, (haven't seen first post and I'm working without a brain, as usual) have a little white tube underneath, showing that she'd stand by her man, rather than flashing out of accidental drag for a brawl?
This may not matter now, but if you ever decide to set up a sorority...
just to let you know, the little white tube underneath is NOT a definate indication of a female. i have had males with it, including one who i have babies from.
 
Does Loretta, assuming she's not an infant, (haven't seen first post and I'm working without a brain, as usual) have a little white tube underneath, showing that she'd stand by her man, rather than flashing out of accidental drag for a brawl?
This may not matter now, but if you ever decide to set up a sorority...
just to let you know, the little white tube underneath is NOT a definate indication of a female. i have had males with it, including one who i have babies from.

:blink: OMG :shout: Thanks for the warning.
Sneaky little devils - probably go into drag to get in with the girls... :hey:
So how do you tell??? ????
Or is this one of Nature's Unsolved Mysteries? :cool:


Addition to little_mermaid - I probably had Loretta Lynne mixed up with Tammy Wynette or something.
Apologies - I'm more of a Greenday person, myself. :band:

My concern was that if she turned out to be a boy (doesn't look like one - she's very feminine) and was put in with girls, there could be sushi all over.
It's happened.

Don't know whether this'll apply to you or not, but I don't find it any harder doing waterchanges on a 10 gal than a smaller one, although a larger bucket would be needed than you're likely to be using.
Pretty much same stuff needed, similar time expended, although in really little tanks it's hard to try to get any of the bottom clean before you've taken out more water than intended, although raising the dump bucket onto a kitchen-type chair slows the flow and helps a bit.
Just my personal opinion...

Loretta's lucky to be in such caring hands.
 
And I don't expect anyone wants to hear this, but - Googled fish feminization males - a sampling of results.
Obviously, this affects our aquarium fish as well, to speak only of fish.
It's in the water.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=A...c68cec84791a861

Urogenital papilla feminization in male Pomatoschistus minutus from two estuaries in northwestern Iberian Peninsula

Abstract

'Recently, male urogenital papilla feminization (UGPF) in the sand goby Pomatoschistus minutus was reported in several UK estuaries with high levels of estrogenic compounds. The fact that this species is also common in southern European estuaries, together with its life-cycle characteristics, prompted us to investigate P. minutus UGPF in the northwestern of Iberian Peninsula. Specimens of P. minutus were periodically sampled during 2004 at several locations in two estuaries (Minho and Lima). Evidence for UGPF was recorded in both estuaries, the highest incidence being observed in the Lima estuary (50%). Estrogen levels (17β-estradiol and estrone) above 100 pg/l were observed in both estuaries, the higher concentrations being found in the Lima estuary. Overall, the results suggest a relationship between the feminization of male P. minutus urogenital papilla and the presence of estrogenic compounds. In the future, more in-depth studies are required in order to use P. minutus as a sentinel species for estrogenic compound monitoring in estuaries.'


http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NEWSCIENCE/...edmundsetal.htm

'... Edmunds et al. report that a single exposure to o,p'-DDT can lead to a complete, permanent and functional sex reversal in this species of fish. They showed this experimentally by microinjecting small quantities of DDT directly into the egg yolks of medaka a few hours after fertilization, i.e., very early in embryonic development. Fish that under normal circumstances would have matured as males instead matured as females. Not only did these sex-reversed fish have a full complement of female reproductive characteristics, they were able to bear young at a breeding success rate comparable to normal females.


The researchers used microinjection into embryonic yolk as their experimental approach because they believed this route of exposure would be parallel to the actual maternal transfer of persistent lipophilic contaminants to the eggs. Other research has shown that o,p'-DDT concentrates highly in fish ovaries, and within the ovaries, almost all the DDT concentrates in oil droplets within the oocytes.


In medaka, sex is determined chromosomally. Normal males are XY while females are XX. Edmunds et al. examined the chromosomal sex and the morphological/functional sex of individuals at the age of 10 weeks, after injection. They found that at a DDT dose of 227 nanograms per egg (less than one half of the lethal dose, 511 ng/egg) 86% of the genetic males were sex-reversed. Genetic females showed no effects of treatment. None of the control group were sex reversed. They also exposed another treatment group to 2 ng/egg of 17ß-estradiol and found that 1 in 5 genetic males were sex reversed.

Edmunds et al. also tested whether treated, sex reversed males were fertile. They paired sex-reversed males with normal males and found that 50% (3 of 6 pairs) were fertile.

The doses needed to induce complete sex reversal (227 ng/egg or 227 ppm) were high relative to concentrations reported for background field levels. On the other hand, the lethal dose they observed was substantially higher than that reported for wild lake trout (10 ppm). The reasons for this discrepancy are unknown. They may involve species differences or differences in the toxicity of the form of DDT used, or differences in the impact of delivery via microinjection vs. maternal transfer. '

http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NEWSCIENCE/...eminization.htm

'Fish feminization is widespread in Great Britain and in the US. The causes now appear to be a mixture of chemicals, including excreted byproducts of birth control pills and industrial chemicals. ...'



http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~sedlak/CALFEDwebsite.htm



Identifying the Causes of Feminization of Chinook Salmon in the Sacramento and San Joaquin River System


University of California, Berkeley

University of California, Riverside

Applied Marine Sciences

Funding Agency: California Bay-Delta Authority



Project Overview

'Some organic compounds such as steroid hormones from livestock and surfactant metabolites can induce feminization of aquatic species when present at relatively low concentrations in water. The purpose of this project is to assess the estrogenicity of surface waters in the Sacramento/San Joaquin river system using both bioassays and targeted chemical analysis for steroid hormones and alkylphenolethoxylates. Additionally, samples exhibiting significant biological activity unexplained by known estrogenic compounds will be subjected to chemical fractionation and exhaustive analysis to identify the causative agents. Results of the research will be used to identify cost-effective approaches for controlling or preventing feminization of salmon and other important fish species. This research project is relevant to CALFED’s efforts to protect and restore Chinook salmon and other critical species because it provides much needed information about a family of chemical stressors that have not received much attention from the CALFED program.'



Better living through chemistry, or, how to tell if your fish is male or female, and at what time's in his/her life.
 

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