New Aquarium.. Help Please

[battlefish]

Hi all.. I'm new to this forum...

I set up a new 10 gallon aquarium.. and I have 3 female platys and 1 male swordtail... 2 of the platys seem to be swimming near the top most of the time or going up and down facing the edge of the tank... Is this a problem??

I have a filter running and an air stone and several aquatic plants.. I also have a heater running although I can't say exactly what the temperature is..

Any advice as to how I can make them more comfortable in their new home?? Thanks in advance!!

 

[kribensis12]

How long has the tank been set up? I would imagine you have high Ammonia and Nitrates, which is greatly distressing your fish.

 

[battlefish]

How long has the tank been set up? I would imagine you have high Ammonia and Nitrates, which is greatly distressing your fish.

Just about 2 days.. I let the water sit for like a day and a half before I introduced fish.. I used some of that stress coat stuff in the tank and i also have the water conditioner... How could I check/lower the ammonia and nitrate levels?

 

[battlefish]

How long has the tank been set up? I would imagine you have high Ammonia and Nitrates, which is greatly distressing your fish.

Ok, I just did a read about cycling the tank... The page I read says for a 10-20 gal tank, I should start with 2-3 fish.. Is it bad that I have 4?

Also, does it affect the cycling process that I have plants in the tank as well?? Also, I should point out that the latest fish I bought doesn't look as healthy as the first 3 (different store)... He doesn't look sick to say, but his fins look like its been through a little bit of wear and tear (not mangled though).... Any help would be much appreciated..

 

[kribensis12]

I would take all your fish back, except your healthiest looking platy, and return the others. Then i would do daily 40 percent water changes with dechlorinated water, for abotu a month. Afte rthat, you should be in the clear , and you wont have to worry about so many water changes. Make sure you use a Syphon when changing the water, so that you get all teh debris in the gravel. A simple fix to cycling, is going to a freinds house ( that has had thier tank set up for FOREVER)< and ask for a filter pad , or some gravel ( make sure it came directly from the tank, and stay wet until you put it in your tank). It has bacteria on it. Which makes cycling, for you, take about a week.

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forums Battlefish. The process of cycling a tank is usually done without fish by the more experienced fish keepers. Many, many new people end up with fish in their tanks and for whatever reason cannot return them. If you have started on a fish-in cycle, as it seems you have, it can be done successfully. There is a link in my signature to a thread that addresses how to do a fish-in cycle. It is one that I use daily to refer people to, because your problem is really that common.
If you do not already have one, get a liquid reagent based testing kit that will at least test for ammonia, nitrites and can test pH. It is also handy to be able to test for nitrates but is not as critical. API makes what they call a master test kit that does all of the needed tests.
As Kribensis12 said, you can save yourself some time by using established filter media to seed your new filter. There is another link in my signature to a list of donors who have said they will share established media to help others get started. There may be somebody near you that you could contact with a personal message. The process is called cloning a filter and it is quite simple. What you do is place the sample of established media into your new filter where water flows through it before it gets to your new media. That way some of the good bacteria from the old media ends up setting up housekeeping on the new media and your filter quickly starts processing nitrogen properly. It can be over in the first week rather than the more typical 4 to 6 weeks.

 

[battlefish]

Welcome to the forums Battlefish. The process of cycling a tank is usually done without fish by the more experienced fish keepers. Many, many new people end up with fish in their tanks and for whatever reason cannot return them. If you have started on a fish-in cycle, as it seems you have, it can be done successfully. There is a link in my signature to a thread that addresses how to do a fish-in cycle. It is one that I use daily to refer people to, because your problem is really that common.
If you do not already have one, get a liquid reagent based testing kit that will at least test for ammonia, nitrites and can test pH. It is also handy to be able to test for nitrates but is not as critical. API makes what they call a master test kit that does all of the needed tests.
As Kribensis12 said, you can save yourself some time by using established filter media to seed your new filter. There is another link in my signature to a list of donors who have said they will share established media to help others get started. There may be somebody near you that you could contact with a personal message. The process is called cloning a filter and it is quite simple. What you do is place the sample of established media into your new filter where water flows through it before it gets to your new media. That way some of the good bacteria from the old media ends up setting up housekeeping on the new media and your filter quickly starts processing nitrogen properly. It can be over in the first week rather than the more typical 4 to 6 weeks.

Thanks for your help, both of you.. The one fish I bought yesterday died this morning, but he didn't look too good to begin with.. The other 3 are looking fine... fins are up.. doing a lot of up and down swimming though.. I don't think I'll be able to find mature medium, and am going to give the in-fish cycling a shot.. I mean they seem pretty content right now... I read the cycling link in your signature, oldman47.. Should I be doing 20% water changes every day? I'm assuming that right now I definitely do not have zero readings for ammonia and nitrites, even tho i won't have a testing kit until tomorrow...

Lastly, does it help at all that I have several live potted plants in the tank, which probably came with some bacteria??

 

[battlefish]

So I bought a aquarium water test kit... It's an all in one kit with pH, ammonia, nitrates, and like 2 other tests..
I did a test of the water before I changed some of it... and the Ammonia test which I'm pretty sure I did right came out somewhere between .25 ppm and .5 ppm.. I'm generally very bad at seeing small differences in colors, but it definitely is not above .50ppm .... The nitrates test had 0, but that's normal for now I think...

Anyway, I've had the fish for 5 days... is this good, bad, normal??

 

[kribensis12]

Its normal for a cycling tank. Your ammonia will go up, then it will go down, then your nitrites will go up, and then down, and then your nitrates will gradually go up ( you prevent that from water changes). I suggest doing a minimal of 25 percent water changes once a day. Any ammonia what so ever is dangerous, and possibly lethal.

 

[LauraFrog]

So what exactly is in the tank - 3 female platies, right?
Have you tested your tap water for nitrAtes? The main indicator that a cycle is getting near the end is that nitrates are being produced but if there are already nitrates in the tap water you can't use that as an indicator.
Also, if you've bought your fish from somewhere they will probably give you a bit of cycled media if you ask really nicely. They might not know about cycling (or share the information) but if you explain really nicely - or offer to pay for it! - they will probably give you enough media to speed your cycling up.

The other option to speed cycling is 'bacteria-in-a-bottle' products. The debate is out as to whether they actually work. The idea is that you take the good bacteria, put it in a bottle and then sell it. Then somebody buys it, pours it in the tank and voila - instant cycle. It's not that simple, because good bacteria don't just survive in a cold, dusty bottle on a shelf for a year, with no food source and limited oxygen. Basically, you're wasting your time unless you're using Bactinettes (UK/europe) Biospira (USA) or Aquarium Science Ecostart (Australia). Bactinettes and Biospira are refrigerated, which slows the bacteria down and keeps most of them alive. Ecostart is freeze dried. All have a fairly short shelf life - around 4-6 months - so if it was made a long time ago it will be useless. At any rate, these three have been demonstrated to work, they are not 'instant-cycle' as they claim but will greatly reduce the time to cycle your tank.

 

[battlefish]

So what exactly is in the tank - 3 female platies, right?
Have you tested your tap water for nitrAtes? The main indicator that a cycle is getting near the end is that nitrates are being produced but if there are already nitrates in the tap water you can't use that as an indicator.
Also, if you've bought your fish from somewhere they will probably give you a bit of cycled media if you ask really nicely. They might not know about cycling (or share the information) but if you explain really nicely - or offer to pay for it! - they will probably give you enough media to speed your cycling up.

The other option to speed cycling is 'bacteria-in-a-bottle' products. The debate is out as to whether they actually work. The idea is that you take the good bacteria, put it in a bottle and then sell it. Then somebody buys it, pours it in the tank and voila - instant cycle. It's not that simple, because good bacteria don't just survive in a cold, dusty bottle on a shelf for a year, with no food source and limited oxygen. Basically, you're wasting your time unless you're using Bactinettes (UK/europe) Biospira (USA) or Aquarium Science Ecostart (Australia). Bactinettes and Biospira are refrigerated, which slows the bacteria down and keeps most of them alive. Ecostart is freeze dried. All have a fairly short shelf life - around 4-6 months - so if it was made a long time ago it will be useless. At any rate, these three have been demonstrated to work, they are not 'instant-cycle' as they claim but will greatly reduce the time to cycle your tank.

I haven't tested the tap water for nitrates, but I don't even have any nitrites yet. My ammonia reading today was around .25ppm, but that was after I changed the water (I screwed up the sample I took before I started the water change and put the wrong test solution in it.. doh)..

I'm a little concerned, because I have live plants in the tank, and I'm not sure if that will slow down or stun the cycle.. I read that there is something called a silent cycle, where plants compensate for lack of ammonia consuming bacteria, in which case there are no spikes.. but the more I read about this, the more I hear that it is not reliable unless you are experienced.. So my question is.. Should I remove the plants??

Right now the fish (Yup, 3 female platys) are still doing fine.. Fins are up.. sometimes still swimming around frantically though..

Quick edit: I might go find some mature medium.. But uh.. what physically is that? Like the old carbon bag from one of their filters? Some gravel from the pet store tank?

 

[LauraFrog]

Carbon won't do anything much to cycle the tank but the old netting bag might. Sponges will, as will bio rings, or even bioballs. Basically anything that has spent a long time in an established filter, preferably something like bio ceramics which are designed to harbour bacteria, but anything will do. Even squeezing their sponges onto yours might help if they don't have anything they can give you. Once the bacteria are there in an active state, the presence of ammonia will automatically cause them to multiply. The more of it you add, the less multiplying they need to do before they can deal with all the ammonia the fish will produce.

Having live plants in the tank is fine. There is no evidence that it slows down, complicates or prevents cycling and there is some limited evidence that it may help. My personal belief is that a fish tank requires a lot less maintenance if you have an ecosystem in a glass box rather than a few fish swimming round in water in a glass box. But a true ecosystem involves a food web, microorganisms, invertebrates, plants, light etc. I can't provide all of it in the size aquarium I have to work with but one day I will attempt a true self sustaining system if I can get a large enough tank. (I think several thousand litres very understocked would be the minimum to reduce or eliminate water changing.)

 

[OldMan47]

The media that you need is any part of the filter media in a cycled functioning tank. Even the old carbon will have some of the right bacteria on it although it is not a medium we prefer to use in our own filters as the biofilter. What will not work at all is old tank water. The bacteria you are trying to culture live on surfaces, not in the water itself. Although there are the odd one or two bacteria moving around or knocked loose at any time, the thousands and millions of individual bacteria are present on surfaces. Almost anything solid that was a part of a functioning filter in a cycled tank will jump start your cycle. Just stick it into your filter somewhere.
As far as water changes go, start by doing big enough water changes that your ammonia levels never actually reach 0.25 ppm. If that is 50% twice a day then it is. There is no simple formula to tell you how much because it depends on the fish, their activity levels, the amount and exact type of food that you feed and other factors. With no testing kit I would start at 30% daily just to try to help some. You are in the position of being able to measure your water so there is no need to guess like that. If you find the levels at 0.50 ppm, a 50% change is needed. If you find it between 0.25 and 0.50, maybe you can get away with 30%. If you find ammonia near 1.0, you will need to do at least 2 changes of 50% an hour apart and then test again an hour later.

 

[battlefish]

The media that you need is any part of the filter media in a cycled functioning tank. Even the old carbon will have some of the right bacteria on it although it is not a medium we prefer to use in our own filters as the biofilter. What will not work at all is old tank water. The bacteria you are trying to culture live on surfaces, not in the water itself. Although there are the odd one or two bacteria moving around or knocked loose at any time, the thousands and millions of individual bacteria are present on surfaces. Almost anything solid that was a part of a functioning filter in a cycled tank will jump start your cycle. Just stick it into your filter somewhere.
As far as water changes go, start by doing big enough water changes that your ammonia levels never actually reach 0.25 ppm. If that is 50% twice a day then it is. There is no simple formula to tell you how much because it depends on the fish, their activity levels, the amount and exact type of food that you feed and other factors. With no testing kit I would start at 30% daily just to try to help some. You are in the position of being able to measure your water so there is no need to guess like that. If you find the levels at 0.50 ppm, a 50% change is needed. If you find it between 0.25 and 0.50, maybe you can get away with 30%. If you find ammonia near 1.0, you will need to do at least 2 changes of 50% an hour apart and then test again an hour later.

I went to Petco and they wouldn't help me.. The girl working there gave me an attitude about it, and I got into a 20 minute conversation with one of the employees, where he was saying that doing that won't help and that the internet is "just opinions"..

I'm thinking of going to Petland to ask.. It's a much smaller store, so they would more likely help, but their tanks don't look very healthy, so I'm not sure.. Currently, I bought AmQuel Plus, which if I'm understanding it correctly will give the fish a break from the stress from ammonia, but won't disrupt the cycle.. cuz the ammonia is still there... Should I try to get media from Petland you think? or stick with the AmQuel and wait it out?

 

[OldMan47]

The "opinion" on any site you visit where there are fish keepers with a little experience is that the fastest way to kill your fish is to believe the local fish store employees. It is not surprising that they are not willing to help with established media. If I remember correctly, they were the people with an open cup of salt in every tank and most of their fish were sick most of the time. The signs they put up in the store nearest me was something like "fish under obsevation" meaning they didn't want to replace every one you bought because they were all going to die. They are no longer in business near me because they were that bad, but you are free to follow their advice about "opinions". If you want mature filter media to use, I would again suggest the thread in my signature called donors. Our typical unscientific opinion is that fish survive when things are done right and we really would like to help. Face it, I can't sell you anything and nobody else here can either.