New 10 Gallon Tank Set Up, Water Chemistry Tests, Why Did Pleco Die?

[Aquatony]

Hey everyone. I have been lurking for some time while setting up my son's first fish tank.

So my 5 year old son has been wanting to set up a fish tank for a long time. I finally caved and we got a Marineland 10-gallon set up with the Biowheel filter and a 100W heater.

I tried to "go it alone" and, as a science-oriented guy, figured it'd be OK. But, alas, I have had some questions over the months...

Let's start with water chemistry as I have read that's how folks like it here!

Tap water pH 7.6
Tap water TDS 38ppm (General Hardness well below 170ppm considered for "hard water")

Fish tank water as measured today:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 10ppm
pH 6.4 (<----- I'm sure this is a LOT of the problem)
TDS 400ppm (<--- wowsers! Pretty hard...)
Temperature 78.5* F

Current stock:
4 Neon Tetra standard size, ~1"
1 Albino Cory Cat, ~1.5"
Until earlier today... also a BN Pleco, ~1.5"

Numbers-wise, seems understocked a little, shooting for the 1" of fish per 1G of water rule, so that certainly shouldn't be an issue as the Ammonia count shows, it isn't, right?

The nitrogen cycle seems good and in working order.

The BN Pleco died today after being miserable for a couple of days and causing me to worry if I should euthanize him. Oye.

Now, I did add a piece of driftwood in the tank for the BN Pleco which we added approx. 3 weeks ago. I have read that this can leech tannins and other things into the water and can acidification. True?

I have read a lot about water hardness hence why I used some work tools and measured the TDS. Our tap TDS is pretty great. But once it's in the tank the TDS skyrockets to over 400ppm. When folks discuss GH on the forum, are they discussing it with regards to the tap water TDS as it begins, or once in the tank? If the latter, how is there such a discrepancy between our chemically excellent water and the water once it's in the tank? Can anything be done about that or is it normal?

I am tempted to remove the driftwood, place it in a smaller 2 gallon tank, and see if pH changes over time. But that's a long term test and won't help my fish environment in the short term I don't think. Or would it?

Whew. Well I'm aiming to keep the remaining 4 Tetras and 1 Cory Cat alive, for my son's sake and mine, while we figure this out.

I do weekly 10% water changes also with gravel siphoning.

I know that's a big wall of text up there but I truly appreciate any and all insight into what's going on and if I need to change the kind of fish I've got in the tank. I know Tetras and Corys are "soft water fish" and our tap is most certainly soft at ~30-40ppm, but in the tank, it's 400+, so do I need Livebearers and that kind of thing? If so, am I kind of stuck with 10G, being so small for larger fish?

Looking forward to ANYTHING you fine folks want to chip in and let's bat it around a bit.

Thank you!!!


Anthony

 

[Aquatony]

I know folks like pictures too so I took a couple.

My 5 year old had very distinct preferences for decorations and I'm all about giving him some agency in life so I went ahead and threw away more beautiful tropical decoration plan and went with his, errm, more modern ideas... lol. If it needs to be changed for the interest of the fish then we will do it, though, just need some advice.

It needs work, but we are working on it!

 

[Ninjouzata]

What type of test kit are you using? Liquid or strips?
 
The BN could have just been weak, or perhaps its due to the tank not being established. Can you elaborate on how he was acting miserable?
 
What sort of maintenance do you do on the filter?
 
I'd bump the water changes to at least 25% each week, more would be even better considering the size of the tank.
 
The 1G per inch of fish "rule" is misinformation. Would you put a 10" goldfish inside a 10g tank? I would hope not. Things like eventual size, activity levels, bioload, etc need to be accounted for.
You'd want at least a 20g for the BN plec, and same for the cory IMO (which needs a group of 6+ and sand substrate). The neons would be best in higher numbers as well.

 

[Munroco]

That seems a big change in water parameters between your tap and your tank, which to me suggests something is leeching into the water. Drift wood will release tannins but other than that I wouldn't expect it to alter the water that much. Is it possible that some of these decorations are slowly disintegrating?

 

[Byron]

I agree with Mariah's comments.  In addition, some general observations that may help you.
 
Decor.  This is very important but in the general as opposed to specific sense.  To explain what I mean...neon tetra come from very dimly lit watercourses that have marginal and overhanging vegetation (some may have floating plants), a dark substrate (mud, sand, layers of dead leaves), roots, logs, branches.  Some may have aquatic plants.  But the point with all of this is security--from the dim light, a dark substrate, and places for refuge.  So long as the decor provides the effect, it can be artificial or authentic/natural.  Some fish are more specific, for example the pleco must have real wood to maintain a healthy digestive system.  Corys would be better over sand, as they sift this through their gills to extract food, and this won't happen with pea-size gravel.  While they can manage with this, it would be better not--but it is not going to kill the corys.
 
I agree to forget pleco in this small a tank.  Aside from size, they are major waste producers, and that degrades water quality.  And in so small a space, this can occur more rapidly without even being obvious.  Test numbers do not help much here, as provided the nitrifying bacteria are present, they should handle ammonia and nitrite to keep both at zero, unless you way overstock, overfeed and neglect water changes.  Nitrate would likely increase though, and pH might lower rapidly, which would both be signs of problems.
 
To the pH, this is going to lower naturally.  As organics accumulate (and this is normal and unavoidable), bacteria break them down and CO2 is produced, and this creates carbonic acid, and the pH naturally lowers.  This is not so critical with soft water fish, though it can become dangerous.  Weekly partial water changes help prevent this (and I agree, change at least 50% once a week), along with not overfeeding or overstocking.  Live plants also help, and to be simple, consider some floating plants.  These are easiest to keep healthy, only requiring the tank light for no less than 6-7 hours daily.  Chances are there will be sufficient nutrients from the organics.  Your neons will be more colourful as well, as they will appreciate the shade.
 
Back to the lowering pH again...this is also partly due to the low GH and KH.  General hardness is the level of dissolved minerals in the water, and carbonate hardness (KH, also called Alkalinity) is the level of bicarbonates.  These work to "buffer" the pH, preventing fluctuations.  As your water is very soft, the buffering capacity is minimal.  This is not really a problem, with soft water fish, but it would be a major issue with fish like livebearers that need the mineral, so never acquire those (guppy, platy, molly, swordtail).
 
The wood, being organic, obviously contributes to the lowering pH, but this is minimal.  And besides, the benefits of natural organics like wood with soft water fish is worth it.
 
So, all things considered, the lowering pH is natural and not an issue, provided you are regular with maintenance.  The other thing is we don't know the "source" of the tap water pH of 7.6, and water authorities often add substances like soda ash if the GH/KH is very low [I have this here in Vancouver, BC] and the pH tends to go down as these are not permanent.  My tanks vary from some at 5 or lower to some in the low 6's.  I leave them alone, and just ensure the fish species are suited.
 
TDS and GH are different things.  GH is the dissolved minerals, period.  TDS includes all dissolved substances, including minerals but also others, which occur from fish food, water conditioner, any additives (plant fertilizers, chemical substances, etc), fish pheromones and allomones, etc.  Most of us do not measure TDS (I never have), because water changes reduce them so the more the better, plus not overfeeding, overstocking, and live plants.  Sound familiar?
 
The GH for your source water (tap presumably) you say is "well below" 170 ppm.  You might find this in the data on the website of your municipal water authority to confirm the number.  GH is not going to change much in an aquarium, although things may affect it.  Calcareous rock/gravel/sand (composed of limestone, marble, dolomite, aragonite, coral, shells) will increase the dissolved minerals, raising GH, KH and pH.  The very low natural GH/KH means the softening of the water as I explained above, and water changes etc deal with this.
 
Hope this is of some help.
 
Byron.

 

[StevenF]

GH measure the concentration of earth alkali metals like calcium and magnesium in the water.  a reading of 38 is close to RO water or distilled water.  You have very soft water. Generally TDS meters will read higher than GH test because the measure all solids and not just calcium and magnesium.  400ppm is basically Very hard water. TDS and GH readings should always be monitored at both the tap and in the aquarium.  The tap values may change over time due to the weather.  so you do need to know both. 
 
Are you sure the meter is working correctly?  TDS meters (being a electronic device) will occasionally need calibration. This is done with a reference solution of a known TDS level.  Such as this one my meter useshttps/www.amazon.com/20-Standard-Reference-Calibration-Instruments/dp/B00B6QI57M/ref=sr_1_4?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1471651220&sr=1-4&keywords=TDS+reference+solution
 
You can also make a TDS sollution.  It won't be as accurate as a purchased solution.  However it would allow you to quickly check the meter to see if it is even close to accurate.  http/www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?272775-How-to-make-your-own-calibration-solution-for-PPM-measurements
 
Normally I do a 50% water changes.  I don't believe 10% is enough to prevent TDS levels from rising in an aquarium due to water evaporation.  I recently got back from a 2 anda half week vacation and during that time the TDS level went from about 100 ppm (normal for my tank to 200 ppm.  So over months of 10% water changes you might get to 400 ppm  As to the wood that will release minerals and organics in the water that will increase TDS and PH readings.  Your substrate may also release some minerals.
 
Generally decorations and substrates purchased at fish stores are safe for an aquarium and will not release a lot of mineral in to the water.  Occasionally there are exceptions. Also if you got the substrate at a hardware store it probably was probably  never checked and verified to be aquarium safe.  
 
Iwould do the following:
 
1)I would go online and look at your utility water quality report and verify your water hardness and verify your meter is workiing correctly.
 
2) tart doing 50% water changes weekly.   That should lower the TDS reading.
 
3) Try removing the drift wood.
 
4)  If it still is high try identifying the source of the high TDS reading.  You can do that by removing an ornament and placing it in a bucket of water and monitoring the TDS reading over a few day. If the TDS reading in the bucket increases the ornament is probably not safe for the aquarium.  You can also do this with a sample of the substrate and other things in the aquarium.

 

[Aquatony]

Hello everyone and thank you for all the great advice and ideas!

I went ahead and looked at our municipal water district as everyone recommended:

"General Hardness: 1-2gpg, or General Hardness 10-40ppm"
"Alkalinity as measured as Carbonate (KH): 8-10"
"Alkalinity as measured as Bicarbonate (KH): 19-25"

Grains per gallon, or gpg, for GH, I am unfamiliar with as a measurement but of course ppm I am familiar with.

This seems to agree with the TDS meter I used from work.

Some thoughts in reply to all of your great replies:

1. Ok, no Pleco, sad as that is. I will stick to tetras and I'll get another Cory, so our existing Cory isn't lonely. I would like a centerpiece fish but I guess the tank's just too small. Our Albino is in great health, but I do understand the sand issue.

2. that brings me to this point. Since this is a 10gal tank and I plan to, eventually, get the wife to agree to a larger tank I will save changing the substrate until then. I do prefer sand, and the more I've learned about this hobby, the more I know that's true. If I knew then what I know now...

3. I am using the API drip test kit. I have tested samples against known samples I have and they seem to be accurate and more or less precise.

4. The Biowheel component of the filter kit (Penguin, came w/ the Marineland kit) gets no maintenance, and I change the actual filter media every 2 weeks. Following the advice here I will bump the water changes to 25% at least to begin with.

5. Drift wood is going to be placed in a separate water container and then measured over time to ascertain if it is the culprit of the pH reduction. Although Byron says that having the organic wood in there is worth the change in pH because the organic in the tank is a good thing in general. I tend to agree, this makes common sense, but I'm still learning. I also am a little hesitant to remove the Cory's favorite hiding place...

6. Byron, I would love to have a planted "South American aqua scape" as you suggest and as I've seen many members, including you I believe, show with their tanks. For the next tank, which will be somewhere in the 30-40 gal range, we will do that. I love the South American fish and can see sticking with them, just giving them a better taste of home as time goes on. Trying to pace myself. LOL. Is there any way to use my existing gravel substrate (which was purchased at LFS and prepared as directed soaking in buckets until clean) and add some floating plants for shade, in the interim? As a compromise for the tetras? I get the feeling nothing is "easy" in fish keeping, which I feel is actually one of the fun things about the hobby, but are there are any cost-effective and efficient changes I can make to the existing tank (as pictured above) to give the Tetras and the Cory a little better environment? I have to clear everything through The Wife (I know you all know what it's like...). I don't think I am up for switching to sand in the existing tank, given some of the threads on here I've read about, wow! Not just time consuming but feels above my skill set right now.

7. The fish decorations were from LFS and were guaranteed safe and not to decompose, at least in this short of a time, and I prepared the drift wood as directed by boiling and soaking. As guaranteed as anything in life, though, I guess...

8. The pleco was no longer able to "adhere" to the tank like he had been, he would slide down the tank and he just was, well, miserable. Floating on his side, obviously trying to stay upright and everything, but just couldn't. Eventually, he just died. I know that anthropomorphises the fish too much, which I am guilty of a lot.

I get all of the fish at an extremely highly regarded LFS that many of my fishkeeper friends use, so I'm sure it's a localized issue with the tank, and probably either pH or TDS in the tank.

So the idea I'm getting generally is that a 400~ PPM (Total Dissolved) reading in the tank is a little concerning. I tend to agree and I'll start the larger water changes and see if that makes a difference.

For what it is worth, the remaining 4 Neon Tetras and the Albino Cory are doing very well, eating well, and appear energetic.

I think I covered everyone's initial replies. I answered with some questions, hopefully you guys don't mind a few more replies =] It's very good reading, and very helpful for me, to get some ideas of where to go from here.

 

[StevenF]

 
3. I am using the API drip test kit. I have tested samples against known samples I have and they seem to be accurate and more or less precise.

That has been my experience.  Also the Tetra strips I use can give me quick snap shot of 6 parameters in my tank in less than one minute.  The primary error in most test kits is comparing the color to a color chart.  For that and other reasons I have been slowly switching over the Hanna  instruments.  I purchased TDS and PH meter from them and then purchased two color I meters It takes longer to get results but the results are as accurate as you can get.
 
It is good to know that the TDS meter readings you reported agree with the utility water report.  However the very soft water you have will have some implications to any future aquariums you set up.  Your water is probably too soft for shrimp and snails may have difficulty maintaining there shells.  If you put in a couple of old decorative snail shells they will keep the calcium and magnesium levels safe for shrimp and would have any drastic affect on other water parameters.  Also your water probably doesn't have enough minerals in it to support plant growth.  If you ever want to add plants you should use a complete fertilizer such at Sachem flourish comprehensive.

 

[Byron]

So the idea I'm getting generally is that a 400~ PPM (Total Dissolved) reading in the tank is a little concerning. I tend to agree and I'll start the larger water changes and see if that makes a difference.
 

 
Follow Steven's guidance on confirming TDS.  As I say, I have never measured it, as I know that there is nothing I could possibly do beyond what I am regularly doing (water changes, etc) to lower it if I had to, so why bother (in my case, yours may be very different).  I have near-zero GH/KH and TDS in my tap water, I add no minerals (except minimal plant ferts and fish foods), I keep primarily wild caught very soft water fish, I have thriving plants, I feed very sparingly, I add no substances other that water conditioner and minimal plant ferts, I am extremely careful in combining species in the same aquarium to ensure they are truly and completely compatible in all respects...so the point of all this is, if TDS should be high, there is nothing I can do to lessen anything.  So I ignore it, but that doesn't mean others should too.
 

 
5. Drift wood is going to be placed in a separate water container and then measured over time to ascertain if it is the culprit of the pHreduction. Although Byron says that having the organic wood in there is worth the change in pH because the organic in the tank is a good thing in general. I tend to agree, this makes common sense, but I'm still learning. I also am a little hesitant to remove the Cory's favorite hiding place...
 

 
I can all but guarantee that wood is not going to have much effect on pH.  I think I explained the organics issue previously, that is scientific fact and the reason, so enough on that.  You can never have too much wood in soft water fish tanks as nearly every species has evolved to live in such habitats.
 

 
6. Byron, I would love to have a planted "South American aqua scape" as you suggest and as I've seen many members, including you I believe, show with their tanks. For the next tank, which will be somewhere in the 30-40 gal range, we will do that. I love the South American fish and can see sticking with them, just giving them a better taste of home as time goes on. Trying to pace myself. LOL. Is there any way to use my existing gravel substrate (which was purchased at LFS and prepared as directed soaking in buckets until clean) and add some floating plants for shade, in the interim? As a compromise for the tetras? I get the feeling nothing is "easy" in fish keeping, which I feel is actually one of the fun things about the hobby, but are there are any cost-effective and efficient changes I can make to the existing tank (as pictured above) to give the Tetras and the Cory a little better environment? I have to clear everything through The Wife (I know you all know what it's like...). I don't think I am up for switching to sand in the existing tank, given some of the threads on here I've read about, wow! Not just time consuming but feels above my skill set right now.
 

 
Fine, it's good to plan ahead.  The gravel is not going to kill the corys.  But one has to be correct in recommendations, and corys "should" be over sand.  Providing the elements that any fish species "expects" is a significant way to ensure better health because of less stress, and 95% of all fish disease is directly caused by stress.
 
Other than floating plants, no problem with the 10g.  I would get some more wood though (I'm being serious,. not facetious), and plan for this in the larger tank.  I'm attaching a photo of my 70g which is an Amazonian stream theme, and you will see the amount of wood.  This is the tank that houses my 50 corys.  I'll also show my more recently set-up 40g which is a flooded Amazon forest, again lots of wood, and dried leaves which are further sources of decaying organics.
 
Re the "easy" in the hobby.  Something aquarists often seem to ignore, or forget, is that this is a scientific hobby.  Everything about it is scientific, from the water chemistry (that naturally does this or that, and can be severely impacted by us) to the fish's physiology requiring this or that, etc.  Everything functions according to the rules of water chemistry and biological science.  So understanding these to a certain degree is necessary.  Otherwise, one is just relying on pure luck, which sometimes seems to suffice but usually fails.  Just read all the threads on this or any forum on problems, dying fish, etc; they are all due to the science behind it.
 
Byron.

 

[Aquatony]

Fine, it's good to plan ahead.  The gravel is not going to kill the corys.  But one has to be correct in recommendations, and corys "should" be over sand.  Providing the elements that any fish species "expects" is a significant way to ensure better health because of less stress, and 95% of all fish disease is directly caused by stress.

 
Oh, for sure, had I found this place before making the 10G tank, it'd be sand all the way. I have spent some time watching larger catfish species at fish stores over the last few weeks, and noticed that behavior is very common, to gather up sand and filter it through their gills. The more you know...
 

Other than floating plants, no problem with the 10g.  I would get some more wood though (I'm being serious,. not facetious), and plan for this in the larger tank.  I'm attaching a photo of my 70g which is an Amazonian stream theme, and you will see the amount of wood.  This is the tank that houses my 50 corys.  I'll also show my more recently set-up 40g which is a flooded Amazon forest, again lots of wood, and dried leaves which are further sources of decaying organics.

 
So I shouldn't remove anything in there currently, just add some more wood (smaller branches, I can see how that would fit the theme well) and add floating plants, like Brazilian Pennywort? I was thinking I could take a Brazilian Pennywort and attached it to the driftwood, and have it reach up to the top of the tank? Eventually, I guess? I'm very unfamiliar with how planted tanks work. My LFS does cultivate live plants though so I will chat with them also. I can't really plant much in the larger gravel sizes I've got now, right? I don't really mind working on the 10G tank, it will be good practice for a larger tank (which a friend of mine mentioned today, he will be switching from his current 60G to a 100G in the next few months so...) and it is exciting.
 
Byron, would you agree with Steven, that I should add Seachem Flourish, when I add the plants? I work for the next couple of days but I will be able to get to the LFS with plants some time mid next-week and want to be prepared when I go.
 
The scientific nature of the hobby is one of the draws for me, certainly, and I am using it to teach my little guy about pH, minerals, water, and other science-y stuff.
 
I would love more pictures of that 40g tank! And maybe a video! It's a thing of beauty and what I hope and dream my larger tank will look like some day.
 
Thank you all again for your continued support!

 

[Byron]

So I shouldn't remove anything in there currently, just add some more wood (smaller branches, I can see how that would fit the theme well) and add floating plants, like Brazilian Pennywort? I was thinking I could take a Brazilian Pennywort and attached it to the driftwood, and have it reach up to the top of the tank? Eventually, I guess? I'm very unfamiliar with how planted tanks work. My LFS does cultivate live plants though so I will chat with them also. I can't really plant much in the larger gravel sizes I've got now, right? I don't really mind working on the 10G tank, it will be good practice for a larger tank (which a friend of mine mentioned today, he will be switching from his current 60G to a 100G in the next few months so...) and it is exciting.
 

 
Finding real wood branches in fish stores is not easy, and you could use an artificial branch if you find one you like.  And/or another "chunk" of wood, won't hurt.
 
Plants are a big topic.  I suggest floating so frequently because they are the easiest.  Being at the surface, they obviously have brighter light than plants lower down (light intensity lessens as it travels through water, as you likely know), but they also have a higher level of CO2 because floating leaves can take up CO2 from the air where it is more plentiful and it is easier for the plant.  Being faster growing, floating plants thus use more nutrients, which helps with water quality.  Stem plants like Pennywort are also fairly fast growing.  I don't know what your tank lighting is like.  There are plants that are relatively easy to cultivate, and plants that are anything but easy.
 
Obviously only substrate-rooted plants will care about the gravel/sand composition.  One method to decorate an aquarium is to go with decor (wood, rock,ornamental as you wish) and leave the live plants to floating.  This is certainly very natural, as the majority of tropical streams have no aquatic plants because the light is insufficient.
 

Byron, would you agree with Steven, that I should add Seachem Flourish, when I add the plants? I work for the next couple of days but I will be able to get to the LFS with plants some time mid next-week and want to be prepared when I go.
 

 
Aquarium plants obtain nutrients from fish food, water changes, and sometimes additives (fertilizers like Flourish Comprehensive).  How much of the fertilizers you need, if any, depends upon the plant species, lighting, fish load/feeding, and GH (general hardness) of the source water.  Over-fertilizing just like under-fertilizing can cause terrible algae, as can the lighting being too bright or too weak, or the duration too long.  A small bottle of Flourish Comprehensive Supplement may come in handy if you do decide on plants, even just floating.  Make sure it is exactly the Comprehensive, as Seachem make several products in the "Flourish" line and this one is the complete basic supplement.  
 
Byron.

 

[Aquatony]

So I went ahead and got a Brazilian Pennywort plant and threaded it through the driftwood:

So far, 1 day in, the Tetras are spending a lot of time near the plant, under the plant, and so forth. I also added one Catappa leaf on the other side of the tank near the volcano.

I want to add one type of plant in the gravel. I've read about a couple horizontally growing plants that would be happy to occupy the gravel. Eventually I will move to a larger tank and use a sand substrate for my Corys to be happier.

It's exciting to have a living plant in the tank and my kiddo loves it too!