Need Help With General Hardness And Ph

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bb1991

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I just bet a test kit for my aquarium today. And while NH4, NO3, NO2 are pretty much 0. (ammonia may be something like 0.06 im guessing, it felt a little less than inbetween 0 and 0.2 < which was what i can compare with)

But my GH and my pH seemes to worry me.

First my GH went through the roof at around 220ppm or degree of 12-ish. I read that fish like it around 3-6-ish. While pH was 7.6 in the tank, and the water i dechorinated yesterday (left for the time being) read 8 or maybe a little above.

Is there a way to cure this using materials found in the house? Or maybe something to do with adding too little/too much dechlorinator? What causes this?
I've tried to look around in google a bit, but you can't really trust google on the safest or best way, so forgive me if this is newbish question, therefore i'll gladly be directed to another website or a guide in this website cuz i couldn't find anything.

Thanks...

PS: Oh and i almost forgot, to cure ammonia from increasing... = Water change is good enough right?
 
Moved your thread for you to - Your New Freshwater Tank section of the forum
Hopefully you will get more help there.
 
From your results, you live in an area which has hard alkaline tapwater.

It is not true that all fish like a GH of 3 to 6. Some fish do, others prefer it harder. For instance fish from the African rift lakes need hard water and most livebearers prefer it.
By and large, fish that prefer hard water also prefer alkaline water (high pH). Again, rift lake fish and livebearers are the obvious ones.

Fish from sources such as the Amazon prefer soft acid (low pH) water, but a lot of them will survive in hard alkaline water. The main problem is that they won't breed in tapwater like yours. There are fish that won't like your water, the one that springs to mind first are rams (Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, common names blue rams, gold rams, german blue rams, electric blue rams etc)


It is not a good idea to try to alter your water to suit the fish. With hard water it is difficult to lower pH as the minerals that make it hard buffer the water against pH changes. Besides, fish that prefer acid water also prefer soft water, and adding chemicals to lower the pH adds more minerals, the exact opposite of what you want to do. If you are really keen on keeping soft, acid loving fish rather than fish that suit your water supply you could always use RO (reverse osmosis) water. But you would need to add some minerals back in either from a bottle or by mixing it with your tapwater. You would have to make sure that replacement water at every water change was exactly the same as the water already in the tank, which means you couldn't do an emergency water change using pure tapwater.


As for your increasing pH, it is common for the pH to rise after the water has stood for a while. Carbon dioxide gasses out of water when it stands - it lowers the pH so the pH rises as the carbon dioxide leaves the water. Try a test. Run a glass of water and test the pH straight away, then leave the water to stand for 24 hours and test it again. Mine goes up by 0.2.


Ammonia - if there are fish in the tank, water changes are needed to lower it. A cycled filter should be able to keep ammonia at zero, if you have problems after the filter has cycled you need to find the cause of the increase.
 
Ok i kind of understand now, i should rather find fish that suit my water rather than finding water that suit my fish (because this case would require me to use more money and constant checking everytime i do a water change.)
As for the increase in ph i also found that water tested straight from the tap will give me a pH of 7-ish and water left in the sun for many days gives me a pH of 8+.
As for altering my GH and my pH, i found that drinking/bottled water gives me a pH of 5 or 6 i think (i did a few days ago i can't really remember) and a lower GH. Since i know that the pH will generally rise anyways, can i still use the drinking water to lower my GH abit incase it gets too high? Or not worth the risk incase the fish goes nuts from the instability. BTW its a bit hotter here in Thailand, and water evaporates faster. I would have to refill my tank by just abit every other day, should i use the drinking water instead? Oh, also another thing, i just realized that mineral salt i use specifically dramatically increases the GH of the water because of the minerals aswell as the salt (duh..) Should i hold back on the salt for a while incase the GH goes too high? Because i normally put a bit in after every water change cuz my fren told me it helps the fish.

Thanks in advance...I LOVE THIS FORUM!!! everybody is so specific that i feel like google is starting to come second in answering my fishy questions. (everything is all sciency, i need someone to explain it to me in daily-life relevancy...like you just did essjay..Thanks!)
 
What exactly is the salt? I have no idea what is sold in Thailand, but in the UK where I live they sell aquarium salt which is just plain salt like you use in cooking, marine salt like you would add to a marine fish tank, and remineralisation salts that you add to RO water. Does your mineral salt sound like any of those?

The reason they sell 'aquarium salt' (plain salt) is that before we knew about the nitrogen cycle it was found that salt helped fish stay healthier. We now know that it reduced nitrite poisoning, and since we now keep nitrite at zero in our tanks we don't need 'aquarium salt'. Some fish are harmed by it, just less harmed than being poisoned by nitrite. But some fishkeepers still go by the old ways and add salt even though it is doing nothing to help the fish in a properly maintained tank.
Marine salt is obviously for marine and brackish tanks, though tanks with only mollies in them can also use it.
Reverse osmosis water (RO) has had all the minerals removed. But fish can't live in this kind of water; even soft water fish need a few minerals. So remineralisation salts put minerals back into RO water, and you control how hard you make it by how much you add.

If your mineral salt is the cooking salt type (sodium chloride) you don't need it. If it's the sea salt type, you don't need it. If it's the remineralisation type, you are making your water even harder by using it, so stop.

When rain falls it is almost pure water, it has only pollution from the air in it. It falls on the land and flows into rivers and lakes. The rock that the water flows over slowly dissolves, and some rocks dissolve better than others. The rocks that dissolve easiest usually have calcium in them, so water from those rocks has a lot of calcium in it. When we talk about hardness and GH, we are talking about calcium. The more that has dissolved, the harder the water and the higher the GH. Where the rocks hardly dissolve at all, like the rocks the Amazon flows over, very little dissolves so there is hardly any calcium in the water - so we get soft water and low GH.
The rocks that have most calcium are limestone and chalk. These are made of calcium carbonate. So not only does calcium get into the water but also carbonate, and when we measure carbonate it is called KH. Carbonate reacts with acids and stops the water becoming more acidic, that is it stops the pH dropping. Usually, but not always, when the water is hard (high GH) there is also a lot of carbonate (high KH) so it is very difficult to lower the pH because all that carbonate stops the pH dropping.

OK, it's really a bit more complicated than that! There are other minerals besides calcium and carbonate but those are the ones we measure with GH and KH, and they are the ones that make the water what we call hard.

The minerals that make the water hard usually also make the water alkaline, that is they make the pH high. So it is common to find that places that have hard water also have a high pH.



When water evaporates from the tank it leaves the minerals behind, so they build up and make the tank water GH even higher. If the tank is topped up with the usual water that will add more minerals, then more evaporates so it's topped up again adding more minerals and so on. Even doing water changes and taking water out doesn't help this problem as a lot of the minerals are left behind. When you add your mineral salts after a water change you are just helping the minerals build up faster.
Topping up with water that doesn't have any minerals in it would solve this problem of the minerals building up. Can you get distilled water or RO water where you live as these would be the best for topping up? Not for doing water changes with, just for topping up. If adding the bottled water makes the tank pH that low, it is not good for the fish to change it so much. Or did you mean the bottled water had a pH of 5 or 6? Besides, what minerals are in the bottled water? You could be changing the mineral content of the tank water so it is different from your tapwater so that when you do your weekly water change, the new water won't have the same minerlas as the tank water, which could affect the fish.


What I would do in your circumstances would be first of all stop adding the salts. I would choose fish that can live happily in water with a high GH and pH - research before you buy. I would top up with distilled or RO water, adding a bit of water quite often rather than wait till a lot had evaporated then add a lot of water. When you do your water changes, I would use whatever water it was when you started the tank as that's what the fish in there will be used to. Topping up often with small amounts of pure water (distilled, RO) means that the small amounts won't change the water very much after each addition and when you come to do the weekly water change the mineral content of the tank will still be the same as your tapwater.
 
Ok, i totally understand now and will change my regime from the information you have given. Since bottled water i drink has low GH,(And yes the bottled water's pH is 5-6, not after filling the tank and testing the pH in the tank.) i will only top up just a tiny bit every other day to the tank with bottled water. This should make the increase in GH a bit slower. I will also not use the salt anymore as you advised. Also, when it is time to change my water, i'll use the tap water, as always. This should keep the water's GH and pH stay at a steady rate, and not have too much mineral build up as you said. I also read that bottled water uses reverse osmosis, so i guess it can be considered almost RO water. I'll also take precaution never to use too much bottled water, incase there's actually different minerals in there.

Thank you essjay. I'm still a newbie in this, but every reply makes me feel enlightened, and fish being ever happier.
 

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