Need Help On Tank Cycle Bacteria Not Growing.

[Mamashack]

the_lock_man:
There is a product which you can get called Dr Tim's. This, when used correctly, does help with cycling, so I am told.  I've never used it since I am in the UK, and Dr Tim seems to think that only people in the US have problems cycling their tanks.

I've found some on Amazon but is quite expensive @ over £20 for 4oz inc p&p so I've put a request on flubit.com to see if I can get a better deal.
EDIT: The only problem I can see with it is that it might not have been stored or transported properly, but I'm not sure how fragile the bacteria are in suspension.

 

[the_lock_man]

 

the_lock_man:
There is a product which you can get called Dr Tim's. This, when used correctly, does help with cycling, so I am told.  I've never used it since I am in the UK, and Dr Tim seems to think that only people in the US have problems cycling their tanks.

I've found some on Amazon but is quite expensive @ over £20 for 4oz inc p&p so I've put a request on flubit.com to see if I can get a better deal.
EDIT: The only problem I can see with it is that it might not have been stored or transported properly, but I'm not sure how fragile the bacteria are in suspension.
 

 
Your best person to ask will be TwoTankAmin, who knows a lot about the product.

 

[Mamashack]

So I understand - will see how I get on with Flubit

 

[Essjay]

I know I just added 2 teaspoons of baking powder to the 55g tank. 

 
Just to clarify, was it bicarbonate of soda (known in the USA as baking soda) or baking powder? Baking powder as sold in the UK is not the same as the US baking soda. The UK baking powder contains bicarbonate of soda and other ingredients; it's pure bicarbonate of soda you need, or baking soda if you are in the US.
 
 
As for removing it - at the end of a fishless cycle you need to do a huge water change to remove all the nitrate that has been made. That water change, if it you do a big enough one, will also remove all the bicarbonate. The sodium that bicarb contains is not good for fish and should only be used during a fishless cycle. Once there are fish in the tank things like coral, limestone or shells can be used to raise the KH, it's just that they don't raise it enough for cycling.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

First:

 
To raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), commonly known as baking soda. 1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH. Sodium bicarbonate drives the pH towards an equilibrium value of 8.2.

from http/fins.actwin.com/aquariafaq.html
 
Unless one is keeping rift lake cichlids, you want to remove the sodium part of the baking soda as noted above. I am not so sure one can not use crushed coral to help with KH during cycling- I have a bag of it in my bio-farm tank where I am keeping 6 -7 filters well cycled pending selling them as part of a tank upgrade project. If one tests their tap KH you should get a decent idea from the outset whether it could be a problem. If it is low, you can put crushed coral into the filter or tank in a mesh bag at the outset.
 
Dr. Tim's is good stuff (Tetra Safe Start is similar), but you can not pour it into pH 6.0 (or lower), you will likely kill off a lot of it that way. Getting the bacteria to function at 6.0 and below takes work. They need to be moved down slowly and allowed to adapt. Normally, the ammonia oxidizers use NH3. But as the pH drops below 6.5 and keeps heading lower, all the ammonia in the water is in the NH4+ form. The bacteria are able to alter how they process in order to be able to utilize this but they can not make as efficient use of NH4+ as NH3. Incidentally, nitrite and ammonia are opposites in terms of toxicity and pH. While ammonia becomes more toxic as the pH rises, nitrite is the opposite, it becomes worse as the pH drops.
 
As for the temperature, the ammonia oxidizers do like it warmer- in the low 80s F (27-30C), but the nitrite oxidizers actually prefer it a bit cooler than that. I would suggest anywhere from in the 75-85F (24-30C) range is fine- in theory about 80F (26.6C) is close to optimum considering both types of bacteria involved.

 

[xion0374]

Update June 10, 2013 Day 5, AM
 
PH - 6.0 (added 2 teaspoon last nite)
AM - 4.00ppm to 2.0ppm not really sure how much it actually drop
Nit - .25ppm this morning
Nat - 0.0ppm
 
Planning on adding 14 table spoon of baking powder before going to work.
 
so this morning i checked my water and finally the nitrite has started to be present in the tank.  Not really sure if adding the baking powder did the trick of boosting the bacteria by increase the ph of the water even though only by a mere fraction of .18 not much of increase.  But I'm only guess/assuming that since my water ph is 6.0 before I added the baking soda, my KH would've been any where around 3 to 5kh. 
 
According to this website, by adding 2 teaspoon of baking powder my ph only went up .18 totalling 6.18.
http/dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/CalKH.asp?Gallons=55&KH=2&measure=0&Baking+Soda+%28Teaspoons%29=2.12&SKH=4&EKH=6&pHChange=1.00
 
Before I go to work, I am going to add in 14 teaspoon of baking powder and lets see how much it will raise my ph by the time i get home from work.
So 14 table spoon of baking powder will give me roughly 13.25 kh change.  Therefore by adding it to my starting kh of 4, and increase in 13.25 kh will put the new ph lvl at 6.63 by the time i get home from work.
 
Correct me if my math is wrong or my calculation is wrong, any input is welcome, and Im happy to see the nitrite build up.

 

[Essjay]

I see you are in the USA. Are you adding baking powder or baking soda? If it is baking powder, that is the wrong stuff.
this is the difference

 

[xion0374]

It still has sodium bicarb in it.  Its the same thing.

 

[Mamashack]

It does indeed have bicarbonate of soda, xion, however it also has cream of tartar and corn-flour in it - neither of which will do the cycle or the aquarium any good unless you intend baking in it and not keeping fish! lol
Also suddenly changing your pH so drastically will probably kill off some of the bacteria you are trying to promote so do it gradually as advised and don't lump it all in at once.

 

[xion0374]

I know, I am keeping an eye on it atm. Not trying to increase it so much.  I hope its ok going from 6.18 to 6.6

 

[xion0374]

update june 10, 2013 pm
 
ph - 6.4
am - 1.0ppm
nit - .25ppm
nat - 5.0ppm
 
tonight I see for the first time nitrate present in the tank
nitrite remain the same at .25 as the ph starts to rise due to baking soda being added.
 
cloudy water due to abundence of baking powder/soda
added 10 more teaspoon of baking powder/soda
 
I estimated that my ph will be at 6.6 by tomorrow mornig

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Under no circumstances add baking powder. Baking soda does not cloud a tank at all. I believe you have added the wrong thing. If so, you have likely trashed all your filter media and a lot of other things in the tank. If you have, plan to start over from close to scratch.
 
A 55 gal. tank holds about 208 liters. But a tank volume also consider the glass in its volume and then nobody fills to the very top. Then factor substrate, decor etc. So a 55 is more like 45+ gals or 170+ liters. I posted the following for you:
 

 
o raise the KH without raising the GH, add sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), commonly known as baking soda. 1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH.

 
Doing the math your 55 is under 200L, so lets be generous and say 1 teaspoon of baking soda will raise your KH by 1 dg or 17.7 ppm. You have added 14 teaspoons so I expect your KH to be way up there. And your pH should be 8.2 from adding that much sodium bicarbonate.

 

[xion0374]

Your probably right, but I did get nitrate reading tonight and my nitrite reading is still .25 while my ammonia have drop to 1.0ppm.  So I dont know if baking powder works or not nor it it kill the bacteria at all.

 

[the_lock_man]

Just keep a very close eye on it, it may take a day or so for the effects to be felt.

 

[xion0374]

update june 11, 2013 AM
 
ph - 6.2 drop .2
am - .25ppm
nit - 1.00ppm
nat - between 5.00ppm to 10.00ppm
 
Water is still cloudy due to the baking powder.  I have already bought some baking soda to swap out the powder later tonight when i get home.  And have some tap water pre condition to do some pwc to speed up the cycle.
 
Question how much nitrate can i leave in during the fishless before it starts to kill of the bacteria?