Need help finding a balance...

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Hi everyone, just registered with this forum because I could use some help and I saw a lot of good advice floating around.

I've been seeing some great planted tanks being accomplished without using any CO2 injection. I would like to go more natural and do without CO2 injection if possible, but I don't want the plant growth to suffer. I was under the impression that you had to have CO2 if you wanted lush growth and that was that, but maybe that isn't true?

Here's what I'm doing so far:

- 5.5 gallon tank with 5 female bettas
- no substrate, just gravel
- 14w flourescent tube light (about 2.5w/gallon)
- about 10 anacharis stems (always propagating more)
- 1 java fern
- a "sheet" of java moss about 6" square
- DIY yeast CO2 injection using a small jar as a diffusion bell (bell is always full, any extra just bubbles to the top)
- weekly recommended dose of Leaf Zone
- no aeration of any kind (sometimes I have a small air pump sending air into the tank just to circulate the water a little bit but would like to do without)
- no filtration beyond established biological
- no heater (lower ranges of betta tolerance)
- more than sufficient water changes

I'm hoping to add some hornwort and maybe some najas and hygrophilia in the future as well.

To be honest I don't know my pH levels. I've never tested. It may sound like a crime to some of you, but bettas are pretty pH-tolerant and I think they're better off adjusting to whatever I have naturally than being forced to deal with me trying to stabilize it artificially.

I don't mind adding doses of things like the Leaf Zone at all, but somehow the tubing and diffusion bell just take away from the aesthetic appeal... I'm reminded I'm not looking into a habitat, especially in such a small tank.

Before I was using CO2 injection (and before I had a tank light even) the only plant I had was the java moss, and it wasn't growing much and was getting more and more yellow. I'm still not sure if that was due to the bad lighting, the fact that it was a new tank (not much nourishment floating around), or an iron deficiency. I added the anacharis after I got the tank light, and it promptly melted. At first I thought I didn't have enough CO2 (no injection at the time... the melting is what made me research it) or that I had put too many plants into the tank at once, but now I think it was just anacharis being anacharis (after being grown out in the sun somewhere). My current stems of it are much thinner but doing ok... they grew from the old plants (none of which remain). The java fern is fine of course.

Anyway, here are my two dilemmas... making sure the plants are lush and healthy... and dealing with the algae problems that result from plant-friendly conditions. I'm trying to figure out the balance of CO2 or no CO2, fertilizer or no fertilizer, and how much light and for how long... and outcompeting the algae into oblivion in the process. I have brown algae, which is rather unattractive, especially on the glass... and I have blue-green algae which I actually wouldn't mind so much except that it makes a film over the java moss and I'm worried it'll kill it if I let it.

I'd also like to avoid substrate because I don't know much about it and don't feel like doing hours of research on another fish topic just yet... you'll notice all the plants I listed don't feed through their roots.

So now that you guys have way too much information... I'm wondering... what parameters would you suggest? Do I really need the CO2 or not? Should I keep using the fertilizer or is it just feeding the algae? Do I have too much light or too little? How long should I leave it on every day? Can I fight the algae by just getting more plants?

I really like being able to see the plants grow from week to week... I want to see the java moss threaten to overwhelm the tank someday and the anacharis go from a little offshoot to being a few inches from the surface in a couple weeks. I like seeing everything change... that's the best part. If it's impossible to have that without CO2 I guess I'm stuck with it. But if there's a more natural way (or a way involving additives like Flourish Excel rather than contraptions) I'd love to know.

Many many many thanks to any help you can give me in advance.

 

[Bol]

Hi, ).

Here is my advice...

Short answer first: Go simple, and see how that works for you. Ditch the CO2, forget the ferts, and leave your lights on for 11-12 hours per day. Probably want a little water movement, for the fish's sake. Might want to look into Flourish Escel.

Much longer answer:

First, you probably don't have as much light as you might think. Many people will say you don't really have a "true" 2.5 wpg. For one thing, your tank is small, and your bulb is (probably) short, so it's more of a point source of light, as opposed to a longer tube. Also, there is just not much total light available.

This is one case (very small tanks) where the "watts per gallon" rule of thumb doesn't work very well; for example, think of a 1g tank with a dinky 5W bulb over it -- not exactly the same blinding 5wpg as you'd have in, say, a 55g tank with 275W of light, right?

Since you say it's a 14W bulb, I'm guessing that it's one of the "screw-in" kind of compact fluorescents. If so, you will probably have more light than a 15W Normal Output (the regular, tube-shaped fluorescent) bulbs. A description of the bulb, and the dimensions of the tank, would help.

In any case, the plants you list are way down on the low-light scale (with the possible exception of anacharis), so you should have more than sufficient light, and probably not enough to be in the "CO2 would really help" zone.

I'm just guessing here, but with your current light level, you're probably still in the "low" light range, maybe inching towards "low-medium". In that case, it's most likely that while CO2 injection may help some, it is not necessary and may be mostly a waste; opinions vary on this subject. One alternative you may want to explore is, instead of injecting CO2, dose with a product called Flourish Excel made by Seachem. Excel is merely a source of organic carbon, which the plants can use in a way similar to CO2, and often works well as a substitute for CO2 in small and/or low-light tanks. For info, a $6-$9 bottle (depending on where you buy it) would last your tank for at least two years. But, it's best if dosed daily or every other day, which can be inconvenient to some people.

From what I've learned, pH isn't usually that important to plants, directly. However, in most cases, knowing your water's pH and KH (carbonate hardness, also sometimes called 'total alkalinity' or 'buffering capacity') will allow you to calculate the CO2 concentration, which is why many plant people mention it.

Personally, I strongly doubt that your water, at your light level, is benefitting much from the Leaf Zone. Leaf Zone is only potassium and iron, and chances are your tap water (assuming you're using tap water) has plenty of those elements in it. In fact, an excess of iron is a common cause of "hair algae" or "thread algae". I'm no plant disease expert, but it seems like there are a lot of deficiencies that will cause yellowing leaves. In your case, I suspect it was the lack of lighting, but of course, that's just a guess.

So, I'd start simple, and see how it goes. I've got all the plants you have listed in a "standard kit" 10g tank (with a 15W fluoro), and with no special treatment, they're all doing fine. And again, I don't think that your "actual" light is much more than what I have in that tank, and doubt that CO2 injection would be significantly beneficial. Could be wrong, of course.

If you like to see plants grow quickly, wait until you see hornwort. I think of it as a weed.

Hope that helps.

 

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Since you say it's a 14W bulb, I'm guessing that it's one of the "screw-in" kind of compact fluorescents. If so, you will probably have more light than a 15W Normal Output (the regular, tube-shaped fluorescent) bulbs. A description of the bulb, and the dimensions of the tank, would help.

The light is a full tube All-Glass brand fluorescent that's about 15" long. It's a standard 5.5 gallon rectangular tank... 16"x8"x10" (length/depth/height).

Excellent information... thank you very much. Do you think scrapping ferts and CO2 will help me keep the algae at bay as well? Can I get to a point where I have too many plants for my current setup and CO2/ferts will become a good idea? Or is that irrelevant?

Looking forward to seeing my tank free of contraptions.

Anyone want to trade some Flourish Excel for some Leaf Zone?

 

[Bol]

Do you think scrapping ferts and CO2 will help me keep the algae at bay as well?

It's very possible. At your low light level, the plants' metabolisms are most likely slow enough that any CO2 or nutrients you add won't be used by the plants, so they're just hanging out in the tank ... and algae will be more than happy to use them.

Can I get to a point where I have too many plants for my current setup and CO2/ferts will become a good idea? Or is that irrelevant?

I'd think it's doubtful with regular water changes (which will replenish nutrients). I doubt you'll have to seriously look into supplements unless you increase your lighting. Difficult to predict with certainty, though, especially since everyone's water is different.

From what I've experienced and read, here's a gross generalization of the usual way things work (quite simplified, and therefore ripe for exceptions):

Growing healthy plants is about keeping a balance between lighting, CO2, and nutrients -- usually in that order (of descending importance). Light provides the energy to grow, carbon is the basic building block of growth, and nutrients keep growth healthy.

But the key is balance. For example, there's no use having a bunch of CO2 in the water, if the plants don't have enough energy to convert it. Conversely, putting a gajillion watts of lighting over the tank won't help if there isn't enough carbon available for the plants to actually make more plant, of if there isn't enough (insert nutrient here) to keep the new growth healthy.

As you might guess, at lower light levels, the plants live "more slowly", and there's generally enough CO2 available from the atmosphere, and nutrients from the tap water, to keep things pretty much balanced without extra effort.

Two other things:

First, you mention that you do more than enough water changes. I'm assuming that means that you never see any ammonia or nitrites in the tank, so your fish aren't in any danger or discomfort.

And secondly, if the brown algae you mention looks like rust or slime, rather than a plant-type thing, then it's probably diatoms (also incorrectly called diatom algae), which is fairly common in newer tanks, especially low-light ones. Chances are, it'll go away by itself in a few weeks.

 

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I had a vague idea of how it all worked, but I guess I didn't realize that I actually had "low light" conditions. This is the highest wattage bulb of this type and size I've seen so far, so combined with the watts/g theory I just assumed I was in great shape.

Yes, the brown "algae" looks like rust, but I've had this tank going since January or so, so I don't know if it still counts as a "new tank". I've had these diatoms for months. Actually I have two tanks, this one and a 2.5 gallon one. The 2.5 gallon one has no CO2, ferts, or lighting even, and I've had the diatoms in there for the same amount of time. It contains two fish and a nice sized java fern.

 

[Bol]

This is the highest wattage bulb of this type and size I've seen so far, so combined with the watts/g theory I just assumed I was in great shape.

You're correct about it being the highest power bulb of its type/size. Normal Output (NO) fluoros only come in basically one "power size", which is roughly 10W per foot of length.

I'm guessing your light level would still be called "low" because I have roughly the same bulb over a slightly larger tank (10g -- 20x10x12, but with about 4" of gravel at the bottom), and the lighting in that tank is definitely "low", judging by how the plants do there. But, low light doesn't necessarily mean you're not in "great shape". Low-light tanks can be just fine, provided you have the right low-light plants (which you do).

As to whether your tank is "new" or not, that's tough to tell. Depends some on how long it took the tank to establish bacteria to handle the nitrogen cycle. I have no experience with unfiltered tanks, but it could be that it took up to eight weeks for this to happen, so in one way, your tank could be considered only a month or so "old". Also, I don't think you mentioned how long you have had the light over the tank.

For info, I had visible diatoms in my 10g for about three months after setting it up (mostly on some rocks). But ... my tank was cycled pretty quickly; becuase it was a second tank, I "seeded" it with gravel and filter media from my main, established tank. In effect, the nitrogen cycle got established very quickly. Plus, that tank has a small hang-on-the-back filter running on it.

About getting rid of the diatom "algae", ...

I have no experience with unfiltered tanks. Same with unlighted tanks. You may want to check out the El Natural forum at www.aquabotanic.com, where people (including the author Diana Walstad) specifically discuss ultra-low-tech tanks.

Three things are usually cited as ways to get rid of diatoms:

1) Add suffiicient light -- for your large tank, your current light should be sufficient, if it's on for 10-12 hours per day.

2) Wait -- diatom algae usually goes away by itself. In filtered, lighted tanks, at least.

3) Get an oto -- otocinclus catfish, which are generally a pretty slim 1-1.5" in length, like to munch on diatoms.

 

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Yes, my tank was seeded as well. Anyway, I think I have the gist of it now. Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Silly me]

I have blue-green algae which I actually wouldn't mind

Blue-green, slime or smear algae
Grows rapidly in blue-green, slimy sheets. Spreads rapidly over almost everything and usually indicates poor water quality. However, blue-green algae can fix nitrogen and may be seen in aquariums with extremely low nitrates. Sometimes seen in small quantities between the substrate and aquarium sides. Will smother and kill plants.
This is actually cyanobacteria. It can be physically removed, but this is not a viable long term solution as the aquarium conditions are still favorable for it and it will return quickly. Treatment with 200 mg of erythromycin phosphate per 10 gallons of water will usually eliminate blue-green algae but some experts feel it may also have adverse effects on the biological filter bed. If erythromycin is used for treatment, ammonia and nitrite levels should be carefully monitored.