Need Advise On An Eye Catcher!

[confused mermaid]

I am just starting out, so I don't need to make this decision right now but I need some help....I have a 46 gallon aquarium that is under cycle right now. Eventually though when it gets cycled we would like to complete our stock with some kind of larger sized eye catcher of a fish. We have some glass fish, ghost cats, upsidedown cats, a couple of gourami and a beta fish. My son wants the dragon goby, but it has brackish water needs and I understand it cannot live in my freshwater tank with my other tropicals. I wanted the ghost knife fish but it seems aggressive and eats smaller fish. I looked at kissing gouramis, but they are just so plain colored, though I love my little dwarf gouramis. Plecos look fun, but I really would rather have something different. Isn't there any non-aggressive fish that can can live in tropical "aquarium salt" water and be the "wow" of the tank?

Thank you all

Confused Mermaid

 

[Hawkins]

what do you mean by tropical "aquarium salt"

what is this salt and should i be using it?

i dont use any salt!!

 

[lokkochaa]

what do you mean by tropical "aquarium salt"

what is this salt and should i be using it?

i dont use any salt!!

Its to make the tank Brackish!

depends what you want i have 4 figure 8 puffers that are amazing (in a tank on their own), ive also had an Archer Fish before that was super cool!

 

[saltynay]

2 types of aquarium salt exist. Marine salt which is required for brackish and marine tanks and depending on concentration of salt is called one or the other. Tonic salt also exists which is a broad spectrum treatment which can benefit fish whilst you go and find the correct treatment to use or at the same time as a treatment is in progress provided it doesn't state not to. Some people like to use tonic salt as a staple in their tank to keep disease levels low but healthy fish in a suitable tank shouldn't require this.

Which are you referring to mermaid?

 

[rabbut]

Well, no, actually, Aquarium Salt is Epsom Salts, a hang-over from the old days of fish keeping. It reduces the toxicity of Nitrite and NitrAte, the latter being why it used to be used. In the old days, you rarely did water changes and hence Nitrate build-up to really high levels. The salts made the fish "last" better, so it was assumed that the salt helped the fish. Actually, if you keep up with regular maintenance, the Nitrate levels will not get high, and the salt is not needed. In actuality, there is good evidence that the salt is dangerous to most freshwater tropicals when applied in the long-term

Marine Salt is the salt you use to make Brackish water

When you say you'd like a centrepiece, what is the budget you are on? There are many "fancy" plecos that stay small and look quite different, there is also a hand-full of gouramis that would work also. Do you have Dwarfs in this tank, or are they in a separate tank?

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Hawkins]

there is good evidence that the salt is dangerous to most freshwater tropicals when applied in the long-term

If the fish has the salt and becomes long-term then i think the salt has worked?

 

[rabbut]

^^Well, the long-term in the scientific literature seems to vary between 6 weeks and 18 months. The adverse effects are death, diagnosed via post-mortem as kidney or liver failure in most cases. The species they test on have a varied expected life span, but usually it's upward of 10 years as they are larger fish being tested

Now, if a fish looses between 102 to 114 months of their expected life span, or more in many cases depending on the species, would you say that indicated the salt was successful in keeping the fish in better conditions? They of cause have control fish in an identical tank and conditions, bar the salt, that have perfectly normal organs after being killed for post-mortem examination

All the best
Rabbut

 

[confused mermaid]

2 types of aquarium salt exist. Marine salt which is required for brackish and marine tanks and depending on concentration of salt is called one or the other. Tonic salt also exists which is a broad spectrum treatment which can benefit fish whilst you go and find the correct treatment to use or at the same time as a treatment is in progress provided it doesn't state not to. Some people like to use tonic salt as a staple in their tank to keep disease levels low but healthy fish in a suitable tank shouldn't require this.

Which are you referring to mermaid?

I'm glad you are discussing this because the salt is the reason why we had to give up the idea of the dragon goby. I have my dwarfs in the same tank as the others. I believe it was those, the upsidedown catfish and maybe the glass fish that had "needs aquarium salt" on the tag at the pet store. So I picked up a box and followed the directions (to reduce stress). I didn't understand at first that marine salt and aquarium salt is two different things, and aquarium salt does not make your water brackish. WHEW! There's so much to learn. Now you're saying that aquarium salt is bad for the fish? I'm so confused. As far as the eye catching fish, I don't really have a specific budget. I just would like a larger tropical fish that looks neat and is non-aggressive toward my other fish.

 

[meguro]

Depends what you consider eye catching but anyway:

Keyhole cichlid, I don't know if you would like them but since you said kissing gourami were pretty plain. Generally shy, timid and peaceful fish. 1-2 suggested.
Festivum cichlid, for the most part easy going but can be slightly aggressive in the manner of angelfish. Grow to about 14cm. 1-2 suggested.
Blue acara, pretty awesome fish. Good colour, grows medium-large (15cm+) but is peaceful. 1 suggested.

Red tail black shark, I like this fish. Can be fairly aggressive regarding territory but it is usually nothing to worry about. 1 suggested.

Angelfish, you said you were after something different. While they're popular, I find it's for good reason. Solid fish.

I would only pick from 2 of the above groups rather than 1 of each or so. Wouldn't want to overcrowd.

 

[Jazzzz]

ditch the salt

 

[confused mermaid]

ditch the salt

OK, you guys are way more experienced than I. I will ditch the salt, but I hope you're right. Won't that make my already high PH even higher though?

Depends what you consider eye catching but anyway:

Keyhole cichlid, I don't know if you would like them but since you said kissing gourami were pretty plain. Generally shy, timid and peaceful fish. 1-2 suggested.
Festivum cichlid, for the most part easy going but can be slightly aggressive in the manner of angelfish. Grow to about 14cm. 1-2 suggested.
Blue acara, pretty awesome fish. Good colour, grows medium-large (15cm+) but is peaceful. 1 suggested.

Red tail black shark, I like this fish. Can be fairly aggressive regarding territory but it is usually nothing to worry about. 1 suggested.

Angelfish, you said you were after something different. While they're popular, I find it's for good reason. Solid fish.

I would only pick from 2 of the above groups rather than 1 of each or so. Wouldn't want to overcrowd.

I really love angelfish. LOVE THEM. I didn't know I could have them in my tank with the others. I have been told no several times. Chichlids too. I'm all for any of the above you suggested as long as I can keep em with my others. And you guys are positive I should ditch the salt?

 

[meguro]

We have some glass fish, ghost cats, upsidedown cats, a couple of gourami and a beta fish.

Sorry, I overlooked the betta, it is the problematic fish. I'm surprised you haven't experienced difficulties between the betta and gourami. The other fish suggested should be ok with your tank IME. The worst undesired outcome would be the festivums not liking the gourami (ie. if the betta wasn't in the tank), but I think that would be unlikely. Although I don't have much experience with synos, I hear some species may try to latch onto some slower fish and suck their slime coat. Would need to research that.

Keyholes, angels and rtbs should all be fine provided the betta wasn't in the tank.

I would do away with the salt.

 

[confused mermaid]

We have some glass fish, ghost cats, upsidedown cats, a couple of gourami and a beta fish.

Sorry, I overlooked the betta, it is the problematic fish. I'm surprised you haven't experienced difficulties between the betta and gourami. The other fish suggested should be ok with your tank IME. The worst undesired outcome would be the festivums not liking the gourami (ie. if the betta wasn't in the tank), but I think that would be unlikely. Although I don't have much experience with synos, I hear some species may try to latch onto some slower fish and suck their slime coat. Would need to research that.

Keyholes, angels and rtbs should all be fine provided the betta wasn't in the tank.

I would do away with the salt.

Yeah, I have a weird betta. Actually his favorite fish are the gourami. He hangs out with them the majority of the time. Sometimes the bullys them around close to feeding time (never bites) but for the most part they get along rather well, which I was told is hard to do with a betta. I think I will get some Angels (I am ECCSTATIC to know that I can have Angels) And if Grape (the betta) doesn't get along with them he will have to have his old 4 gallon tank back I guess. I hope that doesn't happen though cuz he loves being in the big tank.

 

[rabbut]

Angels are risky. In some cases it will be OK, but most of the time they pull the fins off fancy fined fish. It really depends on the personality of the angels, something you cannot see before it's a mature fish in your home aquarium...

Salt essentially puts the fish under greater osmotic pressure from it's surroundings. Long term this leads to organ failure and premature death, that is fairly well covered in research. There is limited (and IMO weak) evidence to suggest that salt is good at killing some bacteria and pathogen species, but in most cases the research here is in-conclusive. What is well covered as a good short-term use though, is making NitrIte spikes in cycling or mini-cycling tanks less toxic, in a dose of around 3ppt, or 1tbp per every 10 liters I would only personally use salt in a Nitrite spike, and I would never use it long-term

HTH
Rabbut

 

[confused mermaid]

Angels are risky. In some cases it will be OK, but most of the time they pull the fins off fancy fined fish. It really depends on the personality of the angels, something you cannot see before it's a mature fish in your home aquarium...

Salt essentially puts the fish under greater osmotic pressure from it's surroundings. Long term this leads to organ failure and premature death, that is fairly well covered in research. There is limited (and IMO weak) evidence to suggest that salt is good at killing some bacteria and pathogen species, but in most cases the research here is in-conclusive. What is well covered as a good short-term use though, is making NitrIte spikes in cycling or mini-cycling tanks less toxic, in a dose of around 3ppt, or 1tbp per every 10 liters I would only personally use salt in a Nitrite spike, and I would never use it long-term

HTH
Rabbut

So you're saying even if they leave the betta alone when they are smaller doesn't mean they will when they mature? What if I get two or three, wont they have each other to bully? Like I said, it would break my heart to have to move the betta back to the 5 gallon tank because he's so very happy in the 46 gallon. But gosh, I have to stock my tank with SOMETHING. Tetras don't do it for me. I can't have clown loaches because they get too big.. can't have a dragon goby....Maybe I need to try to find a store that specializes in fish....but now that I see that the tags in the chain stores have mis-information I don't know if I trust any store.