Mysetery Overnight Deaths - Secondary Infection?

[Ami]

Hi guys

I've sucessfully kept tropicals (neons, danios, a plec and borneo suckerfish) for 6 years. The last of the neons and danios finally died recently, presumably from old age. I decided to restock and have had one disaster after another!

I decided to get another tank, slightly taller and 100l, ready for restocking. I bought a 2nd hand one, cleaned it thoroughly and rinsed through my old gravel but kept the old filter and material. I went on holiday and came back to discover that the filter had packed in and that there was some serious polution from the plec and a major cloudy algy bloom.

I rehomed the plec, did an 80% water change, bought a new filter and bought my first real plants for the tank. All seemed well and once the tank had cycled I bought the first of my new residents - 2 angel fish. A week later, I bought 11 flame tetras but stupidly didn't quaratine them because the dealer had assured me they'd had them in the shop for a week and were fine. I also bought some new bog wood for the tank.

That evening I noticed some weird jelly like stuff had appeared on one of the new pieces of bog wood. I took it out and scrubbed it off, it came back so I scrubbed it again and then it seemed to have gone.

Next thing, the red flames all have whitespot so I treat them. They seem to be better after a few days, but the next day I discover they've died overnight and when I remove them, they all have this weird jelly like stuff on them.

I do a 50% water change and remove all the bog wood, which I then soak for several days in boiling water and concenrated methylane blue. The wood is still out of the tank cos I'm too scared to put it back. Not that it matters now, because although the angels and borneo were okay at 1am this morning, they were dead when I got up. The borneo had the same jelly like stuff on him. Poor thing! He'd survived several years, even with his disable fin so I feel extra terrible today.

I plan on stripping the tank and starting again (again!), but am worried that whatever is killing them will hang around. Plus, can I put this wood back in or was it completely harmless in the first place?

Please help, fishkeeping is soooooooo expensive when you make mistakes!

Thanks,
Ami

 

[WILDER]

Sounds like something has come in with the new fish or plants, where is the jelly stuff on the fish and what colour is it.

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

If the jelly first appeared on the wood I would dump it without hesitation. Nothing would make me use it again.
I'm so sorry for such a major loss. Poor things. Do you have any idea what the jelly is? Sounds truly ominous.
Hugs,
P.

 

[Ami]

Goodness - that was a quick reply!

It was a clearish / white colour, seemed mainly to be round the head and gills on the flames (although not all of them had it) and around the mouth, gills and then further down the body on the borneo sucker.

Ok, the flames had whitespot but seemed to be recovering. The borneo and angels were perfectly fine, as was the water when I tested it before and after the 2nd water change. But then the next day they've up and died on me and there's this jelly stuff!

Oh, just thought of the best way to describe it - like KY!

Any ideas? Should I just boil everything, vinegar the tank, ditch the dodgy piece of drift wood and start again?

Tnx
Ami

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

Might also be worth removing the filter media and starting that from scratch too. In case it's sitting in the filter too.
I know it sounds drastic but it'd be better to start that from scratch and re-cycle etc rather then risk any further deaths.
I can't imagine what that is tho! Any experts have any idea?
Hugs,
P.

 

[WILDER]

Have the fish been rubbing on objects, could it be slime.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Have you ever tested for ammonia, nitrate and nitrites(do you know about them?) and can you pst us your recent stats?
How did you go about setting up the tank? you should never completely clean the filter sponge out or clean it in tap water.
Deseases are always present in the tank water and are safe but when conditions rise to fit the deseases preffered conditions or the fish are under stress from one thing or another, desease levels rocket and become too much for the fish to cope with; taking out any tank ornements/wood/gravel or boiling them up won't change a thing or lower desease levels....

Tell us all the fish that have died over the last couple of months, what deseases they had that could be indentified and what you treated them with and your tank cleaning regome on average i.e how often and how large water changes you do, gravel/sand cleaning etc

 

[WILDER]

Does it sound like this.


J). Whitish translucent areas, not caused by slime form on the skin The fish are probably affected by Sporozoa No suitable treatment known. Furazolidone Powder helps in rare cases.

 

[Ami]

Thanks again for the replies:

Dib Dab - thank you. I will start from scratch, including re-cleaning the tank with vinegar, and will definitely ditch the filter material.

Wilder - no rubbing, flashing, jumping, isolating themselves, hanging near the surface or bottom and all were feeding fine. It does sound like the Sporozoa thingie you mentioned, but I never noticed anything on them (other than the whitespot that the flames were being treated for) until after they were dead. Just on that piece of bog wood.

Tokis-Phoenix - yes I know about testing for nitrites, nitrates, amonnia and Ph. All of which I did before I bought the angels, to check the tank had cycled, then again before I added the flames and again when I did the water changes. Possibly slightly obsessive, but I hate having fish die on me!

New tank set up as described in my original post. My normal cleaning regime is:
Daily - remove any uneaten excess food;
Fortnightly - 'vacuum' the bottom of the tank (used to be weekly when I had the plec - goodness he was messy! ), remove any dead leaves from my Amazon Swords and Straight Vallis, rinse through the filter material in tank water, do a partial water change - 10% to 2/3 depending on how the water tests.
Quarterly - instead of just rinsing the filter material when I do the normal tidy, I replace it. When I do this, I generally put the new material in a tub with some tank water and then rinse the old material in there so give the bacteria a chance to move house!

I always add King British SafeGuard when doing water changes.

I summarised the fish massacre in my first post, but heres a more detailed description:
2 weeks after new tank set up I went on holiday for 3 weeks (to get married! ), when I returned the filter had died, the plec had caused some serious pollution for him and the borneo to live in and there was a cloudy algae bloom - plec was rehomed, filter replaced and started as I normally do and my plants were added
1 week later (at weekend) - checked levels, purchased 2 angelfish
1 week later (at weekend) - checked levels, added 11 flame tetras and the new bog wood
2 days later (Tuesday) - whitespot became visible on the flames, treated tank with King British White Spot Control (needs to be added every 48 hours). None of the other fish have symptoms.
4 days after (at weekend) - the flames seem better. Continue treatment after partial water change
2 days later (Monday) - All the flames are dead and some have been partially eaten by the other fish, those that haven't have the weird jelly on them. Removed bog wood in a panic and starting to soak in boiling water, initially with King British Methalyane Blue. Partial water change.
Yesterday - the borneo and the 2 angels are dead. None showed any symptoms, the angels have nothing on their bodies that I can see, the borneo's head and most of his body has the dreaded jelly.

Sorry, but I tend not to keep track of the water levels etc - I take it that's what you meant by stats? If they're fine that's cool, if not I fix them by doing a partial and re-checking the next day, then adding whatever treatment is required if I still have a problem.

This is so frustrating becuase I've never had whitespot before let alone mass deaths. Well, except for my original tank when they platys all committed suicide )didn't seem to like the danios!)... I've had the occassional fish die from old age or stress after a house move, and the danios were a bit prone to dropsy from all that rushing around they did, but I used to just add King British Revitaliser Tonic to give their reverse RO a bit of a boost at stressful times and they'd be fine.

I'd appreciate any further help you guys can give. I've been told that weird fungus bacteria stuff lives in the tank and comes out when fish are stressed to attack, but these guys only seem to have been jellied after they were dead. If I do a complete restart, can I save the plants and all but the suspect piece of bogwood and filter, or should I replace everything but the hardware? Should I just take the plants out and dose the tank itself with Methalyne Blue or wil that not be enough?

Thanks!
Ami

 

[Elisabeth83]

What about something from the tap water?? I've read stories similar to yours where it's all come back to something the water company was doing that day which messed up the tap water and when you do a water change it's basically sending your fish to their graves.

From your last post it sounds like you do everything right so all I can think of is maybe there was something in your tap water. Maybe call the water company and ask if they were doing something that day, week etc.

Very strange indeed

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Unless you did a fishless cycle before addng fish via adding bottled ammonia to the tank regualy, the tank would have not been cycled when you added the fish- just out of curiosity what are your recent ammonia, nitrate and nitrite stats? Ammonia and nitrite should be 0 in a mature/cycled tank and nitrates should be kept under 40 for your types of fish. Regular water changes with dechlorinator will lower all levels and live plants will help lower nitrates.

 

[Ami]

Good point Elizabeth - that's something I didn't even think of to tell you the truth. Our water is normally fine and like I said, I always add safeguard and have never had a problem before, but maybe I'll do some investigating! B)

Tokis-Phoenix - I know it can take up to 2 months to cycle a new tank. Remember, mine started with the old filter and existing filter material. I also kept about 1 third of the original water so as not to shock the plec, the borneo or my filter bacteria!

I did have the cloudy algae bloom and packed in original filter during this time, but my tank cycled in 6 weeks, at which time ammonia was 0 and nitrite was trace. I use colour coded chart thingies and they don't have scoring systems so I can't tell you the exact stats.

When I had to change the filter, I kept part of the original filter material and simply rinsed the new part in the tank water and debris from the rest of the old filter material (it's a Clear Jet filter, which holds 2 blocks of foam filter material). Maybe I should have waited another few weeks, but remember I did check before buying the angels and then a week later before buying the flames and experienced no ammonia or nitrite spikes.

As mentioned before, I do partial water changes every couple of weeks, have gotten rid of the plec and have live plants so can't see what else I can do.

Think I'm just going to have to start again and keep my fingers crossed!

Ami

 

[Ami]

Oh, Tokis-Phoenix, one thing I wanted to ask you - how on earth have you managed to post 2339 times in the 3 1/2 months you've been a member?! Or are the stats under your name wrong?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Oh, Tokis-Phoenix, one thing I wanted to ask you - how on earth have you managed to post 2339 times in the 3 1/2 months you've been a member?! Or are the stats under your name wrong?

Lol ,
I don't sleep very much and i work at home doing tattoo art and illustrations for books and things, i end up with alot of spare time with nothing to do so i come on this forum- i would say i know a fair amount about fish keeping so i try to share my knolege with as many people as posible and also learn as much as i can; im planning on doing a rare fish breeding project in within the next 5months or so, so i use this forum alot to gain as much knolege as posible .
I don't realy care about my post count, all it indicates is i probably post too much , although i like to think i have saved quite a few peoples fish on the emergency section with the time i have spent there, and being a livebearer fan i try to educate as many people as posible on livebearers as i can, and with them being such popular fish it ususualy means posting alot.

 

[Ami]

Well that explains it.

Thanks for your expertise - I may call on you again....

Ami