My Semi Aggressive Experiment

[millb293]

Hey folks. Not exactly new to fishkeeping, just had been a while. Anywho, I have a 29 g freshwater tank--and have always had a love for cichlids and other typically "difficult" fish to socialize in a communal setting. So, with careful choosing (watching the individual fish personality in their LFS tanks, taking eventual size into account and heavily planting the tank and providing plenty of places to hide. and feeding generously flakes and bloodworms) I decided to also take the aggression theory behind African Cichlids where overstocking can spread out aggression. And I am aware that this reduces water quality. I do 25% changes twice a week and use prime daily. So here is my current roster, which I've had for a month and a half:
1 male veiltail betta
1 male crowntail betta
1 moonlight gourami
1 dwarf flame gourami
1 bronchis splendens
1 red paradise fish
1 blue paradise fish
1 firemouth
1 red jewel cichlid
1 bolivian ram
1 OB peacock
1 australian rainbow
1 pearly danio
1 male swordtail
1 green lantern platy
1 leopaldi angelfish

Tank dwellers are all gettin on fine. The two male bettas had dominance issues that they've since seem to settle with different planted territories. The angel occasionally butts at the veiltail, but has not done any damage. The ram and peacock playfully chase each other, and the firemouth seems extremely timid. The moonlight, being the heavyweight in the tank, is one of the larger bullies, and the flame is quite aggressive as well. But no damage has been done. I know it can take up to three months for aggressions to manifest; but I'm hopeful that they'll work out. What do you think?

 

[Jay-93]

Run while you can!!

Expect some of the people on here to take you apart pretty soon. Sounds like its VERY over stocked and just waiting for a mass brawl, more like the octagon than a fish tank

Good luck.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

What are the dimensions of this 29g?

I'm a "say what you mean and mean what you say" kind of guy... Just briefly looking at that list sounds like a very sick "experiment" where conspecific and heterospecific fighting/deaths/"live lunch" will be rife...

 

[moochy13]

i predeict it ending in tears. i hope not, as theres nothing i love more than somebody proving 'the man' wrong, but i cant see it. also, why bother buying some of the fish - surely the platties, danio, rainbow, and brochis are adding nothing to your 'experiement' ? not exactly semi aggressive fish are they ? those platties and the danio will become lunch once something gets big enough.

also, i think its sort of what Goat was getting at, but malawis can be overstocked i think because they are all sort of 'the same' - excuse my lack of scientificness. youve just jumbled a load of fish together, from all different parts of the world, from all different climates, in a weird king of the ring situation.

 

[AshleyT]

Jay-93 made me Laff hahaha

 

[millb293]

haha, bring it on, folks. I did a lot of reading and research in all sorts of forums and fish profiles, and have come across so many contradictory advice regarding fish temperament and compatibility. So far, my theory of the aggression being spread out among several fish has worked. The peaceful fish are not being bullied at all (the danio is too fast. the others are relatively slow swimmers. Neither the sword nor platy have had issues with being chased.) really, the spitfires are the jewel, the peacock, and the ram--who right now are all the same size, and they have just chased each other around the bottom of the tank occasionally. there has been no exhaustive chasing, except on the part of the two paradises, who i may be removing soon. I just also want to mention I am doing this the most responsible way possible. Any fish that shows any signs of stress/not eating/fin nipping I will gladly separate or return to a store or post for adoption. I already did that with a small Convict.
I just don't believe these fish can be so easily typified. And I know the water requirements, like the angels and rams needing softer and the peacock and jewel liking harder...i've kept pH, temp, and hardness all at the mid range and no one seems to be stressed at all.

 

[Ruskull]

It's a pretty sick experiment in my humble opinion.. At some point the fish will become so stressed that their immune systems get weak inviting such things as Ich to manifest itself. Long before that though, you'll probably see some of the weaker fish dying. Was this the goal? Survival of the fittest?

 

[millb293]

also, I was aware of the international spectrum of the fish--but these fish have been bred for generations in aquariums, and the ones I got them from seemed pretty uniform in terms of specifications. While I'm sure freshly caught species of these fish would not handle the compromise of water quality--these fish have been living in overstocked and probably poorly conditioned tanks they're whole lives at PetCo.

 

[Ruskull]

How are the plants doing? Many of those fish eat those plants..........

Even if all these fish were compatible the tank is severly overstocked and will require more like 50% water changes per week.

 

[Ruskull]

also, I was aware of the international spectrum of the fish--but these fish have been bred for generations in aquariums, and the ones I got them from seemed pretty uniform in terms of specifications. While I'm sure freshly caught species of these fish would not handle the compromise of water quality--these fish have been living in overstocked and probably poorly conditioned tanks they're whole lives at PetCo.

That part I agree with as most LFS's typically keep the fish in tanks that are too small and not the proper parameters.

 

[soybean]

So with your last sentence in mind of 'What do you think?' hopefully that means you're open to criticism along with any positive comments you were hoping to hear.

I think this is incredibly irresponsible stocking serving no purpose other than to prove yourself right, to yourself. The African cichlid overstocking rule doesn't apply to every species of fish, and if it did, and worked, you would've read about it as standard before. To use pet shop tanks as an example of a longterm overstocking possibility is frankly silly, the turnover in those tanks is high and the aim is to get as many fish in the shop for sale as possible. You are responsible for providing suitable housing after purchasing them.

In addition, you have single individual fish that would normally live in large shoals. In some respects they would probably be better off in a shop display tank, as theyd be with others of their own kind.

Good luck to you, but something will give eventually, and I bet you won't come back to announce that half your fish have shredded the other half.

 

[Ruskull]

So with your last sentence in mind of 'What do you think?' hopefully that means you're open to criticism along with any positive comments you were hoping to hear.

I think this is incredibly irresponsible stocking serving no purpose other than to prove yourself right, to yourself. The African cichlid overstocking rule doesn't apply to every species of fish, and if it did, and worked, you would've read about it as standard before. To use pet shop tanks as an example of a longterm overstocking possibility is frankly silly, the turnover in those tanks is high and the aim is to get as many fish in the shop for sale as possible. You are responsible for providing suitable housing after purchasing them.

In addition, you have single individual fish that would normally live in large shoals. In some respects they would probably be better off in a shop display tank, as theyd be with others of their own kind.

Good luck to you, but something will give eventually, and I bet you won't come back to announce that half your fish have shredded the other half.

Wow, well done Mr. Soybean. I'll bet we don't hear too much more about this ridiclous experiment. Remember that idiot that had too many Mollys so she wanted to see if she could fry them up & eat them? These are probably no more than the standard trolls we all see on other forums................

 

[soybean]

Mrs

 

[Ruskull]

Mrs

Oops! To be fair your avatar is a male......................

 

[soybean]

It happened in this thread today as well http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/388972-angel-fish-and-discus/page__p__3268541__fromsearch__1#entry3268541