My Plans For A Planted Tank

[speedingorange]

Right i want a planted tank.. so hope this is the right place.

firstly Im not entirely new to this.. i had a tank about 6 years ago... when i was 12 and well, i didnt have a job. and reading over the past 2 days ive found out a lot more info that would of really helped me to not kill all the fish when i had my last tank.

anyhow

If i jot down here what i am planning on doing...

then you can all tell me how much of a plank i am and what ive done wrong etc in my planning

so here goes

Tank

looking for someting in a region of 100cm x 40 x 40 but am strugling to find an online retailer that stocks something at a sensible price with a stand :lol and without half a tonn of "free" stuff that i will jsut want to chuck out as i will want better things

Filter

Eheim Professional 2224 canister filter

Is this a good choice or are there better?

I used to have a fluval 303 i think. but that thing was a complete and utter pain in the backside.

couple of questons about the filter.

How do i stop a mad whirlpool effect from the filter being too powerfull. Also can i use an under gravel intake? do they even exist??? to stop small fry / fish getting a wild ride that they wont forget ? or are there any other tricks?

Heating

was thinking of this

"hydor external heater 300"

found here http/www.seapets.co.uk/product-details/s...tegory/621.html

i like the idea of not being able to see the thermostat.

Co2
Have no clue at all about this please advise me on this.

lighting
Also have no clue about this my old tank had one lamp as that was " the maximum" as the woman in my local aquatic center sugested..

think thats it for the hardware? or is it not idk.

onto the internal bits of the tank i guess

Substrate
whell i want something dark that will highly encorage "Glossostigma elatinoides" to carpet the base of the tank. Any advice welcome!

Furniture
some Bog wood most likely a couple of small bits sticking up from the lawn

Plants
Well from what i have read on here in the galeries etc i think the plants i want are

- The lawn

Glossostigma elatinoides - How long would this take to carpet the entire base of the tank if well fertilised / co2 etc etc

A grassy carpeting plant, java moss maybe? Will it root itself down once it gets established or does it need to be always tied down as with riccia?

- The ornaments aka hanging baskets

Was thinking of using Riccia Fluitians tied over the bog wood to make them look well... grassy.

-The skyline.
Java Ferns? so give something for the fish to swim around / a bit of shade, will possibly onle have 2 / 3 dotted about reaching out of the carpet.


Fish

was thinking

6 x guarami's is it the banded ones that are bright blue and red? but do they like brigh lights? would obviously have 3 male 3 female.

10 guppy's some male and female again to add some active colour to the tank. is this overstocking?

then to keep my litle brother happy.

3 x kuhuli loach, are these suitable? or will they uproot plants?

and then he wants something like a catfish / bushynose pleck? idk what the name is thats probly miles off. to munch algae. I dont want anything too big.. so if someone could sugest something small that wont eat fish etc. ( his old one along with a weather loach decimated the neon tetra's in my old tank)

Thats all.

if you can help i will love you forever

James.

 

[saboy]

Whats your budget ? cause this can affect what equipment you can use,

 

[speedingorange]

i wont say unlimited

but i would like to keep the equipment and hardware under the £800 if not a bit lower really.

 

[saboy]

IMO, thats a nice budget !!!

for a Tank I reccomend the rio 125, or 180 but not sure if you want the internal filter, and you will definately need to upgrade the lighting, which isnt a hard job really , i will let others comment on a suitable tank

 

[speedingorange]

would i get away with £600 as im currently restoring a classic car also... and its um a bit ... tight on the pockets

thanks for the comments sadboy

 

[saboy]

No Problem at all,

I think you should get away with 600, if you go for a juwel tank you have got almost everything, the heater is hidden but you have got a big black box to gawk at, the rio 125 costs 200, brand new with stand, thats the cheapest i could find, then you have got 400 to buy better lighting, and a co2 kit of some sort,that should still leave you with money for substrate, plants , fish etc,

I think you could possibly squeeze a rio 180 tank into your budget, costs 290 brand new with stand, but as the tank get bigger, other things like the lights cost more,


Just not sure if you want such a big tank to start with, the size you mentioned came to 160 litres, so 35 litres less or 20 litres more, your choice !

 

[jimbooo]

right then, there is a lot to take in at first but you'll get the hang of it. lets start with the equipment.

filter. you want something that will turn over the water 4X an hour, no more or you will upset the plants. i'm no expert on equipment but all filters will state the LPH (litres per hour) on the packaging. i'm not sure how many litres your tank will be but if it's say 100 litres you want a filter at about 400 LPH. you can use a bigger one if it has a varyable flow rate (so you can literally slow down the flow).

under gravel filters are bad for planted tanks as they take all the nutrients away from the roots (where you want them to be) go for an external filter with a spray bar and position the bar an inch below the surface so as not to churn up any of the surface film. agitation at the surface will drive off co2 which defeats the object of adding it in the first place (while were on the topic airstones are a no no for the same reason)

lighting: go for around 2 WPG (watts per US Gallon). you will have to add extra tubes to the original setup, so make sure the tank can accomodate more tubes. this is always a problem and usually involves a bit of diy, drilling the hood, attaching extra brackets to hold them etc.. the Juwel tanks can be modified pretty easily (both mine are Juwels). any others you'll have to ask us when you find something before you buy it and we'll check it out for you.

co2. for tanks under 40G you can manage perfectly well with a yeast type co2 kit.
in short there are 2 types, pressurised (basically about £130 for an off the shelf kit that uses pure co2 in a gas bottle) and yeast (about £20 and uses yeast, sugar and water, you just have to change the mixture every week)

go for the nutrafin natural plant system, i used 2 on my 40G (Juwel rio180) and just about got 30ppm co2 which is the target level you are looking for. one unit does 20G.

heater. up to you i use the standard juwel ones supplied with the tanks. as long as the fish are at the right temp any heater will do.


now inside the tank

MOST IMPORTANTLY to get a sucessfull planted tank thriving you have to replicate a river bed. after all this is where the plants naturally grow. i have always used laterite. you mix the bottom layer with gravel (small 3mm gravel not pea sized) then dump the rest of the plain gravel on top. laterite is dried clay from river beds and acts like a sponge holding the nutrients at the roots of the plants so they can get to them. my glosso carpets have always grown sucessfully on the above substrate.


bogwood: fine, just be sure to soak it for a week or two before putting in the tank to get the tannins out (turns the tank water brown if you dont)


plants

glosso will take about 3 weeks to go from first planting to a full carpet.

java moss will attach itself to rocks, bogwood etc unlike riccia dont put riccia on bogwood it's much easier to attach riccia to a flat object like slate to form a carpet, it doesn't really work on bogwood, trust me, been there done that and got in one hell of a mess.

java fern's are nice plants but better tied to bogwood than planted. use them at the rear of the bogwood with java moss in front. i'd use amazon swords for the back wall (depending on the height of the tank) anything over 40cm will be tall enough to accomodate them and they will grow really well in laterite. vallis, cabomba, ludwigia etc are all other options for the back that should all grow perfectly well


i'll stay away from commenting on the fish stocking at the moment until i know the tank volume but it sounds like your a little over stocked. what you need to remember with a planted tank is that you need to know the nutrient levels in the water and predict what rate they will be used up. after all fish waste = plant food. without blinding you with science phosphate for example is essential for plant growth but also a big algae trigger. at levels around 1-2 ppm your fine but with too many fish pooping all day you'll quickly go above that and algae will take over from the plants. big fish are bad news so gouramis etc are borderline depending on how many you get. for example your better off having 30 cardinals than 4 fully grown angels as the small fish only produce tiny poops that will break down and vanish quickly where as the angel poop will sit on the substrate, get stuck in the glosso and rot away for a few days producing far more phosphate etc....

find the tank then look at fish but plan to be looking at a tank of beautiful plants with a few fish rather than the other way around. too many fish = weeks even months of algae problems


so i take it that will help get you started, you have to "love me forever now"

edit: just read the above replies, god that took ages to write lol.

for comparison, here's my rio180 (first pic) and rekord 60 (second pic)

 

[speedingorange]

yeah, i certainly dont want an internal filter when i did have one it was the bain of my life, and i want to try and get rid of the internal heater although i guess that could be updated at a later point.

can you get the juwel tank without all the heater stuffs etc any cheaper?

{edit}

thanks for the reply jimbooo

really informative

daft questiong ppm?/

other than that im pretty much ontop of what your on about i think. With the Co2 kit i think i will buy one as it seems like more maintanence hassle to make one and have to change the mixture every week.

Right well when i am well again i will zip off to local aquatic center and see whats going on with tank sizes and prices


on the fishy side of things i thought i may be a little overstocked.

I have a soft side for gouramis

btw i read your guides to the riccia and java and very helpfull actually looking farward to trying it out.

thanks again.

better start writing some love letters i guess


james

 

[saboy]

Brand new , juwels only come with the filter heater etc, all done, but you can take it out and put a external on , and sell the filter box , but this costs more money, you could look on ebay for a second hand one, i dont know if you want second hand though - I wouldnt with a budget like that, you could go for the rio 125 brand new, cut the intermal filter out and use some of the xtra 90 pounds that you would used buying the 180 and buy an external,

 

[jimbooo]

ppm = parts per million. just the general measurement of nutrients

if someone says nitrate is 20 or phosphate is 5 etc thats in ppm

i'm glad you found the riccia guide usefull i did it so much i thought it would benefit others to put pen to paper so to speak

 

[Themuleous]

Jim you must be bored at work like me! I was going to add something like that! Glad you did it first would have taken most of the afternoon!

One small thing to add, I see you're in Worcester? Get youself over to Oxford and get the tank from the gold fish bowl. You can get a Rio 240 for under £300 and thats with a stand! Its the cheapest shop Ive ever found and that includes the net (especailly when you include shipping costs). Once you have decided what tank you're after give them a call webite here and see if its in stock, prices are on their website.

Other than that, think Jim do most of the hard work for us!

Sam

 

[speedingorange]

thanks again

yeah i cant jump on getting it just yet, as

ive got to get the final all clear from my rents. and ive got to get my race suspension setup for my car powder coated

but all this info is awesome and very helpfull

 

[jimbooo]

yep, slow day at work. you got it. i've already gone home once to get my digicam to take a load of pics of my car for the show me your car thread. spent 1/2 the day on the civic forum, the other half on here.

i have answered a phone call though so it's not all play lol

 

[lljdma06]

If you really like gouramis, can I recommend Colisa chuna? The honey gourami. it grows much smaller, less than two inches and IMO, a much better gouramis for a planted tank than the one your planning, which is beautiful, but a little big. There are several color morphs, but I really prefer the natural colored, where the males are a gorgeous honey brown with a dramatic blaze of blue-black running from their face to their ventral fins. I have a group of 4 in my planted 15g (1 male, 3 females), and they are great to watch and much hardier than Colisa lalia (Dwarf gouramis). Another option is Trichopsis pumilus (Sparkling gouramis), which grows to the same length, 2 inches. Looks absolutely aweful in the LFS, but in a planted tank, it colors up beautifully. I have a trio (1 male, 2 females) in my 10g, and they are a very nice center piece fish. These two fish are ideal for smaller tanks and do very well in planted setups. Pair them with small schoolers from the genus Rasbora, and you really can't go wrong with your tank setup, and you will have very minimal waste from the fish.

Male honey gouramis Isn't he gorgeous?

Male sparkling gouramis. This male was very ugly and pale at the LFS, you have to give them a chance.

That being said, looks like you'll have the makings of a beautiful planted tank once things are setup. That budget sounds pretty darn good. I did my 36g for around that much and my 10g and 15g were much tighter initially. I think like $200 a piece, if that. My tanks are cheap, it's my lighting that was expensive. You'll love planted tanks, I can't imagine my hobby without them. You'll be hooked! I look forward to keeping tabs on your progress.

Warmest regards,

lljdma06

 

[speedingorange]

i do like them but i dont know if i like the honey gourami's quite so much however the sparkling does look very nice. I did have 2 pearl gourami's in my old tank.. would 4 of them be ok or would this be too many again?

i just remember gouramis being so peacefull and mind there own buisiness etc