My New Tank And Fish... Update!

[Fishcakes]

I'm a newbie myself, being 20 days into my first cycle, and I must say that I've never found the members on this forum anything but helpful.

Fishkeeping is a complicated, even difficult hobby at times, and sometimes asking what's best for your fish does sometimes mean hearing things you don't want to hear. I'm sure that Taffy and any other members who have offended you didn't mean to do so, they were simply saying it like it is.

The fact of the matter is that you NEED to keep your ammonia and nitrite down. Ideally at 0 but never more than 0.25, as this is poisonous to fish, and the way to do this is with frequent water changes. We don't want your fish to die, either now or from related diseases in the long term, and I'm sure you don't either. The fact that your ammonia has been up to 1.5 is almost definitely the explanation for unusual behaviour in your fish.

Oh I'm not doubting the advice. But posts which contribute nothing such as the first response to this thread have completely put me off this site. Fishless cycling might be the "best" way, but its not the only way, and I am doing everything I'm supposed to. The 1.5 spike happened once and I promptly changed more than usual in the water, tested it again a few hours later and it was back to zero.

No I don't want my fish to die. I chose the fish-in cycling so I didn't have to add ammonia, and I knew I could dedicate the time needed.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/361506-fish-in-cycle-new-15-gallon-tank-help/ - The responses to this thread gave much the same advice but with no sarcasm and pointless +1 posts. I'm sorry for how annoyed I have got and sorry if I offend people in turn, but I've felt like I've been looked down on.

Thanks for the tips about using live plants however, that's something I think I'll definately do.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Have you done the massive water change yet? You need to do this to get things back on track, as the health of your fish in the short and long term is lowered when they are swimming in water with more than 0.25 mg/l ammonia or nitrite.

 

[KittyKat]

I know I am repeating what others have said, but it is very important that you don't let ammonia or nitrite reach 0.25. Any amount of ammonia is toxic for the fish, which is why you should be doing your best to keep it as close to 0 ppm as possible. The filter will cycle with unreadable amounts of ammonia, so the biggest effect of having higher concentrations is that it harms the fish. There has been research done into this and some species of fish will be severely harmed by unreadable amounts of ammonia and all will suffer *to some extent* (this varies between species) by any readable ammonia. The side effects of ammonia poisoning will be higher susceptibility to disease and early death.

I expect to see anyone doing fish-in cycles testing the water at least at 12 hour intervals, preferably more often, and doing large (90-95%) water changes. The reason for large water changes is that a 25% water change from 0.25 ppm ammonia with 0 ppm water will leave 0.19 ppm ammonia, while a 95% water change with 0 ppm water will leave only 0.01 ppm ammonia. To get down to 0.01 ppm ammonia with 25% water changes, you would have to do 11 * 25% water changes one right after another.

Because *any* ammonia will harm the fish, it is best to keep it as close to 0 ppm as possible. The "hardiness" is only the ability of the fish to survive ammonia, not its ability to resist being harmed; in other words, if a fish is "hardy", it is still harmed by ammonia.

For this reason, it is also very important that you use a dechlorinator which will "deal" with ammonia, like Stress Coat or Prime. These dechlorinators temporarily convert very harmful ammonia into less harmful ammonium. Both are readily used by the filter bacteria, so these make no difference to the cycle, but they make a LOT of difference to the fish. It is also best to use at least a double dose of these dechlorinators for the duration of the cycle.

You can reduce the ammonia further by adding fast growing stem plants and floating plants to the aquarium.

p.s. have you tested your tap water for ammonia after you dechlorinate? Some tap water contains ammonia and some contains chloramine which dechlorinator converts to ammonia (usually into 0.25 ppm)

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Snobbish? No no, you're certainly taking that comment completely the wrong way.

What i found a little confusing, maybe odd, was how you seemed completely transfixed on the behaviour of your fish, yet you had described the root of your problem in your first paragraph!

If my first reply did seem out of order in any way, shape or form then please accept my apologies, which also go out to anyone else on here that saw it that way.

If you chose to do a fishless-cycle and posted your 'log' on here then you would get many, continuous helpful responses... but as you chose the fish-in cycle, there really is not alot anyone else can advise you except changing the water more than regulary.
I sincerely hope your fish come out the other end happy and healthy.. i was in your shoes 12 months ago but bit the bullet, re-homed my little friends and done a fishless cycle.

But anyway, all the best with whichever route you decide to go down.

Terry.

 

[HayzH]

i must admit Terry..i took the first response a tad "abrupt"...but i have also had some "oldies" be rather rude to me also, so i kinda know how that feels.
We (afterall) have to start somewhere...and we join these forums to be helped...not felt catorgrized(if this is the word).
I recently got a volunteering job at my local CC...and the team will always be "oldies" and "Newies"...why can't we just all be treated as the same??
Group huggggsssss

 

[KittyKat]

What's a CC?

 

[HayzH]

What's a CC?

Children's Centre

 

[This Old Spouse]

Occasionally you'll get abrupt and sometimes even rude responses to posts here. Ignore them! I've been known to be a little abrupt now and again when people do ignorant things and then talk about them like it's fine. I'm not referring to your actions, because I think you're doing everything you can with the knowledge you were given to make your fish comfortable.

I only wish the LFSs would hand out flyers to each new fishkeeper that details the nitrogen cycle and realize that if the newbies were educated correctly that they would be customers for a lot longer than the time it takes for a big group of ammonia-poisoned fish to die and the customer to give up the hobby in frustration. I just thank goodness I found this forum as soon as I did and now after a year I feel like I've learned enough to be a responsible and knowledgeable fishkeeper. I certainly don't know everything I need to know, not by a long shot, but I can usually find the answers to my questions here.

Stay with us.

 

[fluttermoth]

Occasionally you'll get abrupt and sometimes even rude responses to posts here. Ignore them! I've been known to be a little abrupt now and again when people do ignorant things and then talk about them like it's fine.

Yes; I've done it too

You have to remember, OP, that this is new to you but we get two or three people or even more here almost everyday with exactly the same issues; it can get wearing to feel like you're repeating yourself over and over and over...

 

[GreenA]

Hello Fishcakes. And

to the world of fish keeping.

I'm currently going though a fish-in cycle which is hopefully at its final stages

.

When I bought the fish I did what my LFS recommended, which was to leave the tank running for 3 days and then add a few fish. Only after that I started my research which was very silly of me, and to be honest rather unusual as I am doing a lot of academic research for my profession and am very passionate about it. Anyways, I learned from my mistake but stuck with the fish-in cycle as my LFS did not take the fish back.
It truly is hard work and I had to do at least 2-3 water changes of about 50-80% and even 90% at times. I must say all my fish are still alive but I am sure they suffered a whole lot and probably won't live as long as fish that didn't have to go though this tough time. Some of my friends who saw my tank also bought tanks and I now, too, advise them to do a fish-less cycle.
However, if you decide to stick with a fish-in cycle I would strongly recommend to follow the instructions people on here gave you, as they are passionate and experienced fish keepers. And maybe all of us need to remember that a post can be interpreted in so many ways, as one crucial part of distinguishing the true meaning of any message is missing, and that is our voice. So interpretations can vary. Overall I dare to say

that the people on here are very friendly

and just want to help. And let me tell you they helped me a lot, despite me doing a fish-in cycle

. Don't be discouraged just yet and stick with us. As some others said, we're here to help

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Imagine swimming, eating, breathing, drinking and living in a pool of your own waste... it's gonna change your attitiude and behaviour right?

I don't like the tone of your post. Thanks for the welcome.

Well allow me to apologise if it offended (yet i continue to fail to see how). You seem to have spent a rather long time going into detail about the behaviour of your fish, when it is all too obvious that the ammonia and nitrite is killing them from the inside out.

Ignore what they are doing, it doesn't matter at this stage and is rather irrelevent... '0' ammonia and '0' nitrite are what you need to be aiming for.

And welcome

Terry.

I can't accept an apology where there is none. I spent more time describing the behaviour because that takes more words than saying where I am in my fish-in cycle and what my tests results are, so I apologise for using the english language. I'm also dyslexic so I often use unnecessary words.

My ammonia levels are less than 0.5 but closer to 0. I have been changing 25% of the water every day or every other day since I got the fish last week on Friday and monitoring the ammonia particularly at least once a day. After reading a book, a leaflet that came with the tank and taking advice from a friend who keeps a large tropical fish tank we chose to do the fish-in cycle with some hardy fish on the understanding that we have enough time to change the water every day (maybe more) if we need to.

All those things considered, I don't think I deserved such snobbish responses. I have seen people responded to like this who had like 3 fish in a fruit bowl before, I'd like to think I'm doing better than they are! I think I may take my questions elsewhere. Yes I know it would have been better to do a fishless cycle, but the attitude on this forum to newbies stinks. Unhelpful, smart and sarcastic comments such as the first comment and then people posting just to say "+1" helps nobody.

Welcome to the forum. Sorry that you feel unwelcome and offended but let me tell you a little something about the wonderful members of this forum.

These "unhelpful, smart, and sarcastic comment making snobs" saved the lives of my fish and got me through both a fish-in and fishless cycle. They area ll very compassionate about fish. While their comments may seem harsh, they are more than likely correct. Rather than insult them, you may want to thank them for taking the time to respond to your problem. That is just my opinion. I have been in your shoes, and yes even if your ammonia is <.5, it is still greater than ZERO which is KILLING your fish. There is no other way to say it.

Keep up with what you are doing, keeping your ammonia as close to zero as possible. You will get your filter cycled and your fishes behavior will go back to normal. Even if you have to change your water everyday. I did daily water changes for about 2 weeks, because I didn't even knwo about ammonia when I started. I have made more mistakes than you can think of, and consulting these member here have kept me from making more.

Keep at it and keep up posted and we will all do what we can to help you out

 

[Malawi MaD]

Imagine swimming, eating, breathing, drinking and living in a pool of your own waste... it's gonna change your attitiude and behaviour right?

I think this comment is fine, its straight to the point and there is nothing 'snobish/cocky/abrupt' about it IMO..

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Imagine swimming, eating, breathing, drinking and living in a pool of your own waste... it's gonna change your attitiude and behaviour right?

I think this comment is fine, its straight to the point and there is nothing 'snobish/cocky/abrupt' about it IMO..

I agree.

 

[Fishcakes]

Hello everyone, just to post a quick update. I want to apologise if I've seemed somewhat ungrateful or irritable, I'm doing the best I can with the advice my LFS gave me and also from my own research. I think its best if I stop the conversation here about the one comment in particular which "set me off", the one I objected to the most - but yes, I do accept apologies and thank you everyone for the welcomes. Outside of fish-keeping my r/l has been a bit hectic and it's made me somewhat more sensitive than normal.

Anyway, rather than responding to one specific post I'll just give a very brief update.

Day 12 of tank running, Day 7 of having fish.

Ammonia levels are reading as 0 on the test strips. I have ordered some liquid tests. Nitrite is 0, but the test strip is saying we have nitrate of 10, that can't be right though can it?

We did a massive water change, probably closer to 70-80% than 90%.

We've invested in some "Ammonia remover", I know it's not as good as water changes themselves but how am I best using it? The bottle seems to indicate its good for emergencies rather than regular water changes.

We have bought about 10 strands of the pond weed as suggested. Not enough to completely cover the surface of the tank, but we spoke to a different person at the LFS to who we saw when we got our tank and fish and he was very knowledgeable about the nitrogen cycle, he talked us through it and confirmed that the pond weed will help. Also, when we rinsed the pond weed what my boyfriend thought looked like a snail egg or a baby snail was in the bag with it. He only noticed it once we had already put the weed into the tank, but we did rinse the plants well before putting them in the tank anyway, and after noticing it we very carefully checked them again and couldn't spot any more. We don't have a quarenteen tank and we'd be hard pushed to make room for one anyway.

Also, we brought some blood worms in jelly to give to the fish. So far we have been feeding them twice a day on a tiny amount of flakes, but if its best we will reduce feeding the fish to once a day. We got the blood worms because we want our fish to have a varied, healthy diet. Money isn't an issue.

Will the dominating behaviour of the orange molly settle down after the cycle? It's especially evident when being fed.

Edit - Since doing the massive water change this afternoon, the fish are a lot more active and are swimming around much faster than they were, almost hyperactive. The platy has latched itself onto one of the mollies and is "shoaling" with her, it's kinda cute. Much better to see them more active, even when the lights off. The other mollie is happily chasing her own reflection.

 

[Blubble37]

Hi fishcakes, yes a reading of nitrite is EXCELLENT!!!!

It meand that your filter is processing ammonia into nitrite and then nitrite into nitrate

Don't use the ammonia remover, all it does is convert the ammonia into ammonia or just uses a few dormant bacteria to get rid of the ammonia.

Twice a day in small amounts is best, it means they have longer to digest each meal and they don't just chuck out food they haven't had time to digest.

I am assuming the orange molly is a sailfin right? My sailfin was aggressive to begin with, but now he is very gentle and eats out of my hand, literally.

Glad to hear they are more active

My other molly often looks at herself as well!