My New Tank And Fish... Update!

[Fishcakes]

Hello everyone!

After reading around this forum and "lurking" for a while now, I'm posting to ask a few questions. I have a 60L tank, which I purchased 10 days ago and has been running since then, it came with a heater, filter, bulb and filter media. I followed the instructions at the pet store which I bought the tank from and ran the tank for at least 3 days (in my case, it ran for 4 days) before adding any fish. I have educated myself and chose to do the fish-in cycle. I have been changing 25% of the water every day pr every other day, measuring ammonia levels each time and it's always been between 0.5-1.5. I have not observed the "shimmies" and none of the fish have been showing any strange or different behaviour.

I have 2 female mollies and 1 female platy. Yes, I know (now) that the platy is happiest kept in groups, which leads me to my first question - Should I add another platy now, or wait until the fish-in cycle is complete? The platy has (strangely) attached itself to one of the mollies (bright orange but with a black patch over one eye, so we've affectionately named her "Pirate") and follows Pirate around the tank, which Pirate seems to tolerate even when the platy swims really close and occasionally "nips". The platy was at first extremely shy but now seems much bolder than the other molly, which is a dalmation type.

Another question I have is regarding the mollies. I am pretty sure they're both female as their anal fin, while being slightly different, are both "fan" shaped (although the orange one is always fan shaped, and the dalmation's one only becomes fan shaped when she swims fast, regarding the platy its definately female). I did think for a while that the dalmation was male, until the fin seemed to flat out a bit when it swam fast and I realised she must be female.

Anyway, "Pirate" earns her name again by being really aggressive at feeding times. I feed them twice a day - once in the morning when I switch the tank light on, and again during the evening shortly before I turn the light off. Pirate always chases the other 2 away during feeding time, but when watching closely I have observed that the other two have been able to sneakily get some food. Is this something that may settle down?

Also, during the day Pirate has been known to bully the other molly, (called Edie by the way, after the Greek God Oedipus as Edie's favourite thing to do is to chase her own reflection) to the point where yesterday I noticed it had got much worse. Normally Pirate will tolerate the dalmation swimming past, but almost every time they see each other Pirate chases her away. The dalmation is now too scared to go near the surface during the last 2 feeding times. Meanwhile, Pirate is tolerating the platy following her around the tank.

However, this afternoon today I noticed the dalmation and Pirate swimming close together, alongside each other. I thought great, they get on now! But then Pirate suddenly seemed to snap and chase Edie away again. However I repeat, the bullying seems to have got worse, not better. Right now as I type the platy and orange molly (Pirate) are swimming around the tank together as a pair, and the dalmation appears to tread water in one location until its spotted by the orange molly, and then it'll hide somewhere else.

Edit - Just to add as a note, despite the two mollies not seeming to "get on" with each other, when I turn the light out at night, all 3 fish will huddle together and swim together, and the orange molly seems to (almost) completely forget about chasing the dalmation. However, I'm not sure if they will continue to do that tonight after Pirate being worse today.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Imagine swimming, eating, breathing, drinking and living in a pool of your own waste... it's gonna change your attitiude and behaviour right?

 

[CezzaXV]

Other people will give advice on the compatibility issues, but ideally your ammonia should never rise above 0.25-0.5. If it's going up to 1.5, you need to do either bigger changes or more frequent ones.

 

[Fishcakes]

Imagine swimming, eating, breathing, drinking and living in a pool of your own waste... it's gonna change your attitiude and behaviour right?

I don't like the tone of your post. Thanks for the welcome.

 

[Fishcakes]

Other people will give advice on the compatibility issues, but ideally your ammonia should never rise above 0.25-0.5. If it's going up to 1.5, you need to do either bigger changes or more frequent ones.

Hello, I've just tested the ammonia level now and it came back as between 0-0.5, not completely 0 but not 0.5 either, I did a 25% water change less than 48 hours ago.

Other test results from just now using my testing "strip" set, I have read that the liquid based ones are better, they're on my shopping list

PH - 7.6
KH/mg L - 100
GH - between 125 - 250
Nitrate - 10
Nitrite - (the strip has stayed orange, and the colour scale for this result is in the pinks and purples, so no result)

 

[HayzH]

Other people will give advice on the compatibility issues, but ideally your ammonia should never rise above 0.25-0.5. If it's going up to 1.5, you need to do either bigger changes or more frequent ones.

Hello, I've just tested the ammonia level now and it came back as between 0-0.5, not completely 0 but not 0.5 either, I did a 25% water change less than 48 hours ago.

Other test results from just now using my testing "strip" set, I have read that the liquid based ones are better, they're on my shopping list

PH - 7.6
KH/mg L - 100
GH - between 125 - 250
Nitrate - 10
Nitrite - (the strip has stayed orange, and the colour scale for this result is in the pinks and purples, so no result)

hi Fishcake....welcome to the forum..
Doing a fish-in cycle is very hard work and it takes alot longer than a fishless cycle to actually cycle the filter. (alot longer than 4 days im afraid)...therefor you still have a uncycled filter despite all the magic bacteria in a bottle they flog you in the LFS (Local Fish Shop) they probably sold you too. They are useless the only thing that will cycle you filter is ammonia (which now is your fish).
Your Ammonia EDIT......and Nitrite levels need to be 0...ANYTHING above 0 will be slowly killing your fish. Up your water changes to 50%, then test, if still above 0, do another 50% etc..untill they get to 0. Fish-in cycles need waterchanges 1,2 sometimes 3 times a day!, you are now a water changing machine.
As for the test strips...throw them in the bin they are useless..the chemicals mix together making inaccurate results. The API master kit, salifert or Nutrafin seem to be the recommended liquid test kits on here...far more accurate.
I would just like to add....i put 3 mollies in my 5 day "rested" tank....they died by day 2. good luck xx you will need it...
please spend some time looking at the sections in the beginners resource centre on this forum...especially the fish-in cycle section. Any more questions...dont be afraid to ask xx

 

[KittyKat]

Firstly, please get liquid test kits because strips are too inaccurate for a fish-in cycle.

Secondly, try to *never* let ammonia or nitrite reach 0.25 ppm, and keep them as close as possible to 0 ppm. You don't see the signs of the poisoning now, but you will see them when the fish will get diseases more often than is normal and when they die young. The other person has good reason to be upset by your choice as the fish are already being harmed. It does beg the question: how did you educate yourself about fish-in cycles?

Please do not even think about any more fish until your filter is cycled. It is more harmful for the fish to be poisoned than for them to be lonely for a few months.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Imagine swimming, eating, breathing, drinking and living in a pool of your own waste... it's gonna change your attitiude and behaviour right?

I don't like the tone of your post. Thanks for the welcome.

Well allow me to apologise if it offended (yet i continue to fail to see how). You seem to have spent a rather long time going into detail about the behaviour of your fish, when it is all too obvious that the ammonia and nitrite is killing them from the inside out.

Ignore what they are doing, it doesn't matter at this stage and is rather irrelevent... '0' ammonia and '0' nitrite are what you need to be aiming for.

And welcome

Terry.

 

[Blubble37]

Imagine swimming, eating, breathing, drinking and living in a pool of your own waste... it's gonna change your attitiude and behaviour right?

+1

 

[Fishcakes]

Imagine swimming, eating, breathing, drinking and living in a pool of your own waste... it's gonna change your attitiude and behaviour right?

I don't like the tone of your post. Thanks for the welcome.

Well allow me to apologise if it offended (yet i continue to fail to see how). You seem to have spent a rather long time going into detail about the behaviour of your fish, when it is all too obvious that the ammonia and nitrite is killing them from the inside out.

Ignore what they are doing, it doesn't matter at this stage and is rather irrelevent... '0' ammonia and '0' nitrite are what you need to be aiming for.

And welcome

Terry.

I can't accept an apology where there is none. I spent more time describing the behaviour because that takes more words than saying where I am in my fish-in cycle and what my tests results are, so I apologise for using the english language. I'm also dyslexic so I often use unnecessary words.

My ammonia levels are less than 0.5 but closer to 0. I have been changing 25% of the water every day or every other day since I got the fish last week on Friday and monitoring the ammonia particularly at least once a day. After reading a book, a leaflet that came with the tank and taking advice from a friend who keeps a large tropical fish tank we chose to do the fish-in cycle with some hardy fish on the understanding that we have enough time to change the water every day (maybe more) if we need to.

All those things considered, I don't think I deserved such snobbish responses. I have seen people responded to like this who had like 3 fish in a fruit bowl before, I'd like to think I'm doing better than they are! I think I may take my questions elsewhere. Yes I know it would have been better to do a fishless cycle, but the attitude on this forum to newbies stinks. Unhelpful, smart and sarcastic comments such as the first comment and then people posting just to say "+1" helps nobody.

 

[Xraymark]

Hi fishcake

As a newbie myself i have come to realise that this forum is super keen on the fishless cycle( in the right), so starting of with fish in the tank just strikes a wrong cord for many.

As you have fish just persevere with the above advice and stick with the forum. There is alot of advice and information here and obviously people passionate about fish

 

[lucasluke]

Firstly, ammonia levels should never go above 0.25ppm. The behaviour you are describing is most likely a symptom of ammonia poisoning. This is why they are being aggressive. Dont add another platy, wait until the cycle is finished. Also, you should cut down to feeding maybe to 1 day at the most or even once every 2 days. Feeding 2 times a day is not good in a fish-in cycle. Again, they agressive behaviour you see is likely to be ammonia poisoning. Get a regent drop kit. They are much much much more accurate than the test strips (they are notoriously inaccurate).

If you dont mind me asking - why did you choose to do a fish in cycle?

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Forum members here will post candidly about what is right for the fish, we are a passionate group and sadly fish cannot speak to us to tell us when things are not right.

For what it's worth, I urge you do the following ASAP before you goto bed tonight...

• Unplug the heater (if there is one) and give it at least 20 minutes to cool down.
• Then unplug the filter, as it will get noisy and struggle as you lower the water level.
• Remove almost all the water, literally leaving just enough to cover the fish. They might stress in the short term, but they will thank you with their lives shortly.
• Add similar temperature, dechlorinated water back into the tank. Unless your filter is caked in rotting food, your fish should now have water that has almost nil ammonia.

25% water changes by definition will only lower deadly toxins like ammonia and nitrate by 25% at best (pH and temperature do play a part in this, but it is a reasonable ballpark). Until you invest in a liquid test kit, you need to be doing at least 50% water changes daily, test strips are infamous for dodgy results.

Have a look on Ebay for a size of Seachem Prime that suits your budget. This dechlorinator is meaga-concentrated and cheap compared to other common ones, 5ml is needed per 200l of tap water. In addition, it can be overdosed to help "lock" ammonia and nitrite into less dangerous forms for 24 hours.

Pop along to a local fish store or again, look on Ebay, to buy 5-10 bunches of Canadian Pondweed. With a lighting period of 6-8 hours, these floating plants will use ammonia and nitrates as food, while also oxygenating the water. For even better results, buy a bottle of Easycarbo and Prolito, as these will ensure the plants do not run out of essential nutrients.

In conclusion, cycling a filter with fish in the tank is much harder work and will take much longer to cycle than by the "fishless" method, providing you have the intrests of your pets at heart.

 

[Blubble37]

+1 well said

 

[CezzaXV]

I'm a newbie myself, being 20 days into my first cycle, and I must say that I've never found the members on this forum anything but helpful.

Fishkeeping is a complicated, even difficult hobby at times, and sometimes asking what's best for your fish does sometimes mean hearing things you don't want to hear. I'm sure that Taffy and any other members who have offended you didn't mean to do so, they were simply saying it like it is.

The fact of the matter is that you NEED to keep your ammonia and nitrite down. Ideally at 0 but never more than 0.25, as this is poisonous to fish, and the way to do this is with frequent water changes. We don't want your fish to die, either now or from related diseases in the long term, and I'm sure you don't either. The fact that your ammonia has been up to 1.5 is almost definitely the explanation for unusual behaviour in your fish.