My Jack Dempsey Is Crazy, Need Some Advice

[aloys]

So I set up a new tank about 3 weeks ago, 75 gallon tank with good filtration.

I was stupid and put in 1 Jack Dempsey and 2 oscars. I knew that I would eventually have to take at least one fish out once they grew to 8 inches or more. They were cheap and I thought they were going to be hardy enough.

Well they adjusted to the water after a couple days and everything was fine for about a week. Then the dempsey starting getting really aggressive, he was slightly bigger, no more than half an inch, than the other 2 and just kept going after them. He eventually killed a sweet albino oscar right around the 2 week mark. He then started going after the other oscar more and after a couple days i took him out of the tank to save his life, he is now safe back at a local fish store.

So now i have a tank that is still in the early stages of the cycle with one small Dempsey, roughly 2.5-3 inches long. I just tested the water and the Ammonia is starting to rise, so the tank is still gonna need at least 4 weeks to balance itself out, does that seem accurate?

So my main question: Should I wait until the tank is fully cycled to add any other fish? Will the tank cycle properly considering that it is a 75 gallon tank with just one small fish in it?

A friend of mine has a green terror that is probably 6 inches and probably weighs 6 times what the dempsey does. He told me he would let me put it in the tank but i dont want it to mess up the water and potentially kill it. I have no sympathy for the Jack Dempsey, after what he did to the oscars, I dont really care if the green terror kills him.

So will putting in a 6 inch fish right now mess up the whole cycle and potentially kill the fish?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Davo86]

hi aloys
What size is the JD?

you may just have a particularly aggressive JD, but i will say that putting them in an uncycled tank has greatly increased the risk of problems as fish will act very erraticly in poor water which is what you have when cycling.

I would leave the GT until the cycle is complete, once the cycle is over and the JD is a little nearer the size of the GT I would remove the JD rearrange the tank and then add the GT and JD at the same time. This will give them a level playing field to start from.

 

[ALW]

Agreed ^

 

[arron]

i have an 8 inch JD in my 6 footer and once he got the tank to himself i have found it hard to get anything else in there with him long term, other chiclids that want to stand and fight soon forget about that idea unless they are bigger than him in which case they want to kill him and i wouldn't want that ...... watching a tank full of chiclids trying to kill each other isn't my idea of enjoyment, if i were you i'd try pair it up and have a bash at breeding it, mine used to make babies every 3 weeks with out me doing anything to help and watching the process is quite a sight, or you could try faster moving fish that know when to move i have a RTBS in with him and they seem ok so far , either way i'd not put the jd and gt in together unless they were both 2-3 inch ...... you could take the JD back rather than letting the GT kill it

 

[arron]

QST for andy

I have L204 Flash plec in my planted tank which has turned a bit nasty is yours a bit of a nob too ?!! mines getting to the point of selling him on

 

[markandhisfish]

am i the only 1 to pick up on this but ok losing an oscar to the jd is not good, but to say you dont care if what you put in the tank kills the jd is a p__s poor attitude towards fish keeping.

 

[aloys]

Thanks for all the advice.

The JD is still small only about 3 inches or so.

I only said I didn't care if the GT killed the JD because of what I saw him do to my other 2 oscars! He beat the crap out of them and killed a beautiful fish that I really liked. The only reason he didnt kill them both was because I took one out before he could! I thought i was going to have a nice tank with 3 cool fish and then the Dempsey had to go and be a jerk. That is why I wouldnt care if another fish killed him since he has been such a jerk in the tank so far.

So I dont think I am going to add the GT since he is a great looking fish. It is a male GT and in great health and his colors are amazing in the tank he is in right now, which is a 55 gal. that he has all to himself and he seems quite happy. So I dont want to put him in a tank that isnt fully cycled and have him suffer. There is also a great chance that if i put him in with a the JD that the JD would be dead within a day.

So do you think the tank will cycle properly with just the one JD in it? Again it is a 75 gallon tank, and the JD is small, only about 3 inches.

Once the tank is properly cycled I think i am going to get rid of the JD since I don't really want a 75 gallon tank with just one fish. I'll probably end up with 6-8 smaller cichlids....

 

[minxfishy]

If you dont want the JD, then take it back and do a fishless cycle on the tank instead of putting the poor fish thru what is not a nice process of ammonia and nitrIte poisoning which will no doubt effect its health for the rest of its life. Coupled with that amount of cichlids in the tank along with putting them all thru the cycle is probably what turned him nasty in the 1st place, they are aggressive fish so making it feel lousy by suffering from ammonia poisoning would be enough to tip any fish over the edge.

Return the poor fish and do a fishless cycle, then you can stock that tank with fish that you actually do want.

 

[aloys]

I've been looking around and the JD i have is definetly a female. So what do you think about adding a male JD? Roughly the same size? An inch or so bigger since the one that is in there is pretty aggressive?

 

[Davo86]

I've been looking around and the JD i have is definetly a female. So what do you think about adding a male JD? Roughly the same size? An inch or so bigger since the one that is in there is pretty aggressive?

i would stick to the 1 JD, with two you will either have 1 killed or IF they pair up then that will be your stocking complete.

Nothing should be added until the cycled is finished, if you have a test kit you need to be testing daily to make sure the ammonia and nitrite levels are below 0.25, if you don't have a test kit and aren't checking the parameters on a regular basis you'll probably kill the JD before the cycle is complete.

 

[aloys]

Yea i understand the cycling process this isn't my first fish tank. Telling someone to they have to be doing water tests everyday is laughable though. Doing tests once a week and a couple small water changes a week is more than enough during the cycling process. Is it even possible to cycle a tank and keep the ammonia levels below .25 the whole time?? cause i dont think it is. You would be doing water changes every 12 hours! The cycling process would take 3 months

I think i might take the JD out and just buy like 6-8 tiger barbs or similar fish to finish the cycle. I think the tank will cycle more efficiently. Even though the JD seems super happy and healthy in the tank right now by herself.....

 

[Davo86]

If you really understood cycling you wouldn't have a JD in that tank and more so you wouldn't be saying something rediculous like

"I think i might take the JD out and just buy like 6-8 tiger barbs or similar fish to finish the cycle. I think the tank will cycle more efficiently."

then again, I'm not the one who killed my oscars and are currently poisoning my JD?

If you want to go down the fish in cycle route then very regular water testing and water changes is essential to keep the fish alive.

 

[minxfishy]

Edited as apparently I attacked the OP, my sincere apologies

 

[aloys]

Wow, I didn't think my reply was that crazy. I am not trying to upset anyone. First only 1 fish died, and it was at least 50/50 because of the JD picking on it and the water. I think it was almost 100% because of the JD. I wont argue that the JD was probably super aggressive because of the water, that is most likely true.

We could just call this the "If you don't want to do a fishless cycle your a murderer!!" Forum

I've cycled many tanks (at least 5) with fish in them and have never done a fishless cycle. The last 3 have gone very smoothly with a 55 Gallon tank that was setup around 4 years ago that still has 3 out of the 4 fish that started the tank. And they were not perfect cycling fish, 2 clown loachs and red tailed shark, all still alive in the tank living very healthy happy lives. All 3 have grown nice and slow and I think are as big as they will get in the tank, they are all still small, prob only 4-5 inches. There are a few other fish in the tank, but it is certainly not overstocked. So fish used to cycle a tank can still live for many years with no longterm health problems.

A buddy of mine cycled a 55 gal with one green terror, which I agree is not the best idea, but 2 years later the GT is over 6 inches long and the best looking GT i have ever seen, I will have to get some pictures.

For the record, I am not a careless fish owner who will not take care of the tank and just kill fish over and over. I mean come on, some of you are acting a little crazy, none of you have lost any fish ever? None of you have ever done a normal cycle with fish in the tank. I mean the tank has only been set up 3 weeks or so and I've already done 7 water changes, all with water that had been conditioned.

What is wrong with cycling a tank with Tiger Barbs??

 

[SharonCC]

I've also cycled with fish, although it was in early days of fishkeeping, and I had no idea of fishless cycling. I've cycled a lot of tanks since then, and used mature media from other filters. I have not actually done a fishless cycle. Some people get offensive....... when there is a better way of handling a situation that you don't agree with. I just don't get why there needs to be an attack! It serves no purpose, and certainly saves no fish, and helps no fishkeeper. Fish forums are a place to get help...not get attacked and made feel like a monster! I've seen this twice in two days....What's the deal

Actually, Tiger Barbs are hardy fish, and could probably cycle the tank and survive. It's just easier to do fishless...less stress on you and the fish, and it's quicker. What are the plans for the JD, if the Barbs are in the tank....