My First Time Cycling

[tokyo]

So I am 9 days into cycling my tank and everything is going fine, I saw my first trace amounts of nitrite today. But I haven't seen a spike of ammonia yet, which made me wonder:

Just how much of a spike is this going to be? It started at around 0.25 and is now at around 0.50, Is this the spike or is it going to be more than this?

I intended to do a fishless cycle but I cannot find pure ammonia anywhere, I spent a week checking every grocery store, pharmacy and hardware store I could find, so I am stuck doing a fish in cycle. I am using feeder guppies to cycle the tank and intend to make the tank an African Cichlid tank once it is cycled. What should I do with the guppies once the tank is cycled? The cichlids are going to be too small to eat the guppies when I first get them. I don't mind leaving the guppies in, I'm just worried about overloading the tank. Suggestions?

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Heres the history of my cycling so far:

Its a 25gal tank
Aqua-Tech 30-60 Filter
Used medium sized heater

I now have about 30 feeder guppies in the tank
about 10 are just fry, the rest are about an inch maybe smaller

I've been doing tests every other do or so.
(everything other than pH is measured by ppm)

The temp has been at 76°F but I raised it to 80°F over the past couple days.

1/03/2010: pH: 7.0 Alkalinity: 100 Hardness: 130 Ammonia: 0.25
Added 18 guppies

1/04/2010: pH: 7.3 Alkalinity: 130 Hardness: 130 Ammonia: 0.25

1/06/2010: pH: 7.3 Alkalinity: 100 Hardness: 130 Ammonia: 0.25

1/08/2010: No tests done
Added 12 more guppies

1/10/2010: pH: 7.0 Alkalinity: 80 Hardness: 130 Ammonia: 0.40

1/12/2010: pH: 7.0 Alkalinity: 80 Hardness: 130 Ammonia: 0.50 Nitrite: 0.7
First signs of Nitrite(faster than I had expected)

 

[fatheadminnow]

You are in a fish-in cycle where you NEED to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at or below .25 ppm or your fish will die.

If you intend to get different fish, I suggest you return your current fish and do a fishless cycle, where you cycle the tank without fish. This is the most humane way.

Other than that, keep doing as many water changes as possible to keep the ammonia and nitrite under .25 ppm.

-FHM

 

[tokyo]

If you intend to get different fish, I suggest you return your current fish and do a fishless cycle, where you cycle the tank without fish. This is the most humane way.

I am aware of fishless cycling, but it isn't an option for me because no one in my area sells pure ammonia. Using fish to cycle my tank was my last resort.

But now that I am using fish to cycle, does anyone have any suggestions for what to do with the guppies when the tank is cycled? Should I just try and bring them back to the store after I have introduced my cichlids, or is it alrigt to leave them in the tank? I know the cichlids will eat them when they grow large enough but I'm affraid that the guppies will over run the tank before that happens.

 

[fatheadminnow]

If you intend to get different fish, I suggest you return your current fish and do a fishless cycle, where you cycle the tank without fish. This is the most humane way.

I am aware of fishless cycling, but it isn't an option for me because no one in my area sells pure ammonia. Using fish to cycle my tank was my last resort.

But now that I am using fish to cycle, does anyone have any suggestions for what to do with the guppies when the tank is cycled? Should I just try and bring them back to the store after I have introduced my cichlids, or is it alrigt to leave them in the tank? I know the cichlids will eat them when they grow large enough but I'm affraid that the guppies will over run the tank before that happens.

I would try to return them to your LFS. You are probable not going to get anything for them, but at least you will be able to get rid of them.

Other than that, the Cichlids would kill the guppeis if you decide to keep them in the tank. You won't have to worry about the guppies over running a tank with Cichlids.

-FHM

 

[tokyo]

I would try to return them to your LFS. You are probable not going to get anything for them, but at least you will be able to get rid of them.

Other than that, the Cichlids would kill the guppeis if you decide to keep them in the tank. You won't have to worry about the guppies over running a tank with Cichlids.

-FHM

Thanks, I'm not worried about a refund, they're only $1.50 per dozen so its not a big loss.

If the cichlids kill the guppies will they eat them or will I just be finding dead guppies floating in the tank? Keep in mind that the african cichlids I'm getting are only going to be 1 - 1.5 inches to start, not much bigger than the guppies.

 

[fatheadminnow]

The Cichlids will probably just bully them to death, so I would probably try to get rid of the Guppies before you get the Cichlids.

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Have no idea whether the small cichlids would be able to eat the guppies but the more immediate concern would be the humane treatment of the guppies. The gravel-clean-water-changes (using good technique) need to be soon enough and large enough to keep both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) at or below 0.25ppm, which it appears is not happening currently. This is not just a matter of being humane but also necessary to keep them alive to accomplish your fish-in cycle. Ammonia, even in tiny amounts causes gill damage and nitrite causes nerve and brain damage, both cases leading rather rapidly to death.

The test for the end of a fish-in cycle is whether you can go two whole days without a trace of either ammonia or nitrite(NO2) and have not performed any water changes. The testing needs to be with liquid-reagent based test kits. If the cycle passes that test then you're into your qualifying week and should just watch it continue to perform like that for a week, after which you can consider slow fish additions or can ramp down the testing frequency.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[tokyo]

The gravel-clean-water-changes (using good technique) need to be soon enough and large enough to keep both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) at or below 0.25ppm, which it appears is not happening currently. This is not just a matter of being humane but also necessary to keep them alive to accomplish your fish-in cycle. Ammonia, even in tiny amounts causes gill damage and nitrite causes nerve and brain damage, both cases leading rather rapidly to death.

Thanks for the info, the guy at my LFS basicly told me to just leave the tank without water changes until the cycling is done. I will do a partial water change in the morning and do another test.

The Cichlids will probably just bully them to death, so I would probably try to get rid of the Guppies before you get the Cichlids.

Thanks, I'll try to arrange their return to the LFS on the same day that I get my first two cichlids.

 

[tokyo]

Other than that, keep doing as many water changes as possible to keep the ammonia and nitrite under .25 ppm.

The gravel-clean-water-changes (using good technique) need to be soon enough and large enough to keep both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) at or below 0.25ppm

How large of a water change should I do? I did a 30% change on friday and am getting ready to do another today. My Ammonia is at 0.30ppm and my nitrite is at 0.20ppm so I was thinking of doing a 40% or even 50% water change today to get these under control and then continuing with smaller changes every other day to keep the levels down.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, lol, made me nervous when you used the term "partial water change" as even though that's a technically correct statement it somehow seems to imply smaller percentages to my mind and usually fish-in situations can take pretty darn big water changes to be effective.

Anyway, to answer your question, you just need to be a bit of a detective in figuring out the percentage and frequency of water changes. Its trial and error. When ammonia or nitrite goes above 0.25ppm, don't be afraid to change 75 or 80% (basically just leaving them a little water to swim around in) if you need to to get things down. After the water change you want things down at zero ppm or just a trace (you measure maybe 20 minutes later after things have had time to settle and mix) but that amount is not so important as finding out how long it takes for it to go back up and threaten to go over 0.25ppm again. Its usually not practical (for most people) to schedule the tests/water changes any closer than 12 hours apart. There's nothing wrong with some of them being smaller water changes and some of them being bigger, but don't forget that they should mostly be deep gravel-clean changes because some of the nitrogen compounds will be charged ions and may cling more closely to organics that hang in the gravel. Also, in a fish-in cycle don't be afraid of getting your ammonia level down to zero ppm, in terms of worrying whether the bacteria have food. When our test kits measure zero ppm, there's still plenty of ammonia flowing from the fish to the bacteria, just like there would be in a perfectly cycled tank.

~~waterdrop~~