My First Planted Tank

[plantropimunity]

hey sam, thanks for the reply.
the reason that i brought the ammonia back up to 4 is so that the bacteria remain fed. since i initially spiked ammonia too high when starting, i decided to go with an add and wait version of the fishless cycle. it should be said that this is the first time i am using a fishless cycle myself, so i may be making a mistake here, but my reasoning is that when the ammonia drops to zero, i bring it back to 4, until this is happening every day. during this process, nitrite will also spike and come down, as the second colony forms. from there, i will want to be at a point where i am adding ammonia one night, and getting zero readings for ammonia and nitrite the next day. then i will do a waterchange to get out nitrates and add fish. i admit it seems like a bit of overkill, but i am planning a relatively high bioload, and i want a healthy amount of bacteria in there to be able to handle it.
thanks for the input regarding the shrimp. 30-40??? really? i was thinking about like ten or so would be good. i guess it would be pretty cool to have that many shrimp in there, though.

does anyone else have any opinions on the number of shrimp i should have?

 

[plantropimunity]

yesterday i tested ammonia and i got a reading of .25-.5, so i added ammonia. i did not test nitrite or nitrate. i added 3ml of my solution, which is a little more than half of the amount it took to get to 4ppm the day before. today i just tested ammonia and nitrite and got readings of 1 and between 2-5 respectively. i am going to add half the original amount of ammonia that it took to get from zero to 4ppm today.

 

[plantropimunity]

I think i am getting close.
on tuesday i tested and got ammonia at 1 or 2 ppm, and nitrite was spiked off the chart
i didnt add any ammonia
on wednesday i tested and ammonia was at .5=1 ppm, and nitrite was looking a bit lighter than 5, but maybe still there. it looked like it was between 2 and 5.
i didnt add any ammonia
today, thursday, ammonia was at .25, and nitrite was at zero, and i added 4 ml of ammonia to the tank.
that was at about 7pm. at 9pm, i tested again and got ammonia 4, nitrite .25, and my nitrate test is back in order but , and it read 160+.
i tested again at 11pm and ammonia was between 2-4, and nitrite was at .5

should i top off the tank with dechlorinated water at some point, to replace water lost from evaporation and all the tests i have done? my thinking is that i should put a gallon of dechlorinated water back into the tank to get it back to the original level. what do you think? would it be okay to do that?

 

[Themuleous]

Yes you can top off the tank level with dechlorinated water. The only thing I would add is that evaporating water doesn't take anything with it, any of the nutrients, hardness, NO3, etc. As such water tends to become harder over time if you constantly top up the tank with water from the tap. I think it takes a while probably months but just something to be aware of if you have access to pure RO (I.e. with nothing added) its better to top up with that as you're replacing the evaporate water like for like, i.e. nothing went out due to the evaporation and nothing goes back in with the RO

Sam

 

[plantropimunity]

unfortunately i dont have access to RO water, so i guess tap will have to do. i have extremely soft water anyway, so i dont think i would see much of a change in hardness by doing my top offs with tap water, but i do see your point Sam. thanks again

 

[Themuleous]

Oh right, you're lucky then!

 

[plantropimunity]

okay, so i have been having to add ammonia every other day for a while now, and it has gotten down to .25-.5 ppm in the course of two days. i had a nitrite spike already, and it is consistently reading zero every time i test. i am seeing a problem there though, because i dont get how the ammonia never gets to zero, but the nitrite does. it seems to me that if there is ammonia, it should be converted into nitrite, and i should see a zero reading of ammonia before i see zero for nitrite. what gives?

 

[Themuleous]

This could be due to the size of the filter, sometimes there just isn't enough space on the filter sponge for all the bacteria. Therefore you might just not have enough of the ammonia bacteria, so it takes a bit longer. You know Ive not done a fishless cycle as yet but are you adding the right amount of NH3? Sounds like you're probably adding to much. Say for example you stop adding it and add some fish then the waste they produce, will it be more or less than the NH3 you're adding. Yes I know there is no way of measuring it, but so long as its less then you should be fine. You clearly have a good bacteria colony in the filter. I would be tempted to add some fish, not all at once but say 25% of you're final stocking list and see what happens. If you get semi-hardy things like tetras they should be fine.

Sam

 

[plantropimunity]

i have been quite tempted to do a waterchange and add some fish, but the ammonia presence has kept me from doing this yet. i know that there are both bacteria colonies are there, but i was thinking that i may have to wait for the ammonia eaters to strengthen some. my stocklist is as follows:
three zebra danios
three harlequin rasboras
two black neons

these are fish i already have, and to them i am planning on adding:
two more danios
two more rasboras
three more neons
two german rams
two lyretail killies

like Sam says, i cant measure the amount of ammonia produced by these fish, but i think that by adding the existing fish and letting them be in the tank for a week or two then adding the rest of their counterparts and letting that go a week or two then adding the rams, letting that go, then adding the killies, i should be okay. run on sentences are fun. but anyway i think thats what i am going to do. i will keep you posted.

edit: i am going to add the filter that is on my ten gallon tank to the thirty when all the fish are out of it. its an Aquaclear 30. that should help with the available surface area.

 

[Themuleous]

Moving the filter from the 10G is a good idea I wouldn't add any NH3 or NO2 to the tank now, swap the danios over and wait until the NH3 drops to zero, then add the others. I would hope that once the second filter is in there to, you'll not be able to detect NH3 and NO2. Then you cna start to think about adding the new fish

Sam

 

[plantropimunity]

my knowledge of chemical formulas is not what it should be, so i have to admit to not knowing where no2 enters the equation. i have been going off of the basic names for these types of things. for example, i know that NH3 is ammonia, but i wouldnt know what the chemical formula for nitrite or nitrate would be. (one of those is probably NO2, isnt it? )

anyway, heres what i did.
i removed ten gallons of water from the tank, and then put five gallons of dechlorinated tap water back in.
then i removed ten gallons and added ten more of dechlorinated tap. then i added the remaining five gallons needed to fill the tank.

next i turned the heater from the 84 degrees i set it at for cycling down to the 74 that i want to keep the tank at, and added 2 ml of ammonia.

this was all done on thursday night, and when i tested the tank at 7 pm on friday i got the following results.
ammonia .5
nitrite 0
nitrate still looks like it is off the chart.

 

[plantropimunity]

I have done a series of waterchanges and i am ready to start adding living things to my tank.
As always, i have questions about how to proceed.
should i add plants then fish, fish then plants, or does it matter?
I have two fixtures that i am planning to use combined for this tank (money issue) and they are rated on the back for their wattage at 20 and 17. the bulbs that i have for them are both aquaglo bulbs, and they are rated at 20 and 15. what is my total light wattage output? its either 35w or 37w. the base of that question is can you push more wattage out of a bulb by using a ballast rated higher than the bulb?

i have a list of desired plants.
cryptocoryne wendtii
cryptocoryne hirsuta
anubias barteri var. nana
marsilea hirsuta

based on what i have read i will need to add to this list by getting a few faster growing plants to combat algae. since i am only working with 1.16-1.23 wpg, is there any plant out there that would be considered fast growing that i could add? keep in mind that i am planning a pretty healthy colony of amano shrimp (10+) so algae should be consumed readily.
my tank is roughly 16 inches tall (guessing) and i would like to leave a decent amount of swimming space above the plants. i wish i had a camera to post pics of my hardscape, but i have a rock grouping on the right with a piece of artificial driftwood coming up to about 4" from the surface. then on the left i have a smaller rock grouping. i would like to surround the rock groups with the crypts and anubias and try to fill the rest of the substrate with the marsilea. a friend at work is growing out a bunch of java moss right now, which he has said that I can have a bunch of when it grows out more, so i was thinking of covering the rocks and wood with that also.


well, there are some questions and descriptions of my plan, so lay it on me. i appreciate whoever has anything to say. good or bad, if you have a comment, please dont be afraid to tell me what you think.

 

[Themuleous]

Right, well first off, the equation goes NH3 (ammonia) -> NO2 (nitrIte) -> NO3 (nitrAte).

As to what to add first, it doesnt really matter, but I tend to put the plants in first so you dont stress out the fish and can move things around without to many problems.

Re the wattage if you use 20 and 15 bulbs then you'll get 35w in total, a light as far as I know cant produce more light just but pumping more electricity into it! It would probably just break if you added to much, although I think you'll be find with a 17w ballast and 15w bulb I have a 20w ballast and 18w bulbs on my nano with no problem, but I would just keep an eye on the temperature of the ballast for the first few days just to make sure

Fast growing plants include

Hygrophila species
Ludwigia species
Rotala species
Egeria species
Brazilian Water Ivy
Small Ambulia
Mexican Oak Leaf
Water Sprite
Hornwort
Floating plants

Sam

 

[plantropimunity]

hygrophila polysperma it is. thanks sam

 

[Themuleous]

EDIT - if you need to find out the requirements of some plants try the tropica website