My Discus

[petertr]

Right - major changes over the last few weeks:


Gone are the Fluval 4 and the Jewel Jumbo filter

Gone are the stone caves

Gone (sadly) are the real plants - all dead from being repeatedly pulled up overnight by the 2 larger plec

Gone (no suprise) are the 2 larger plecs!



In - a Fluval 405 filter, running the 4 sponge screen and then ceramic chips in the trays

In - a large array of stones taken from a local beach


Soon to be in - RO Water

In a month or so, will add some new real plants.


New pics coming soon!

 

[petertr]

Looks like I've cause a few issues with the 100% water change. I think the same thing happened the last couple of times I've done the same - obviously try not to do it, but I can't move the tank without removing all the water - must weigh about 100kg with 1/4 of the water left in!


Tank went fairly cloudy - so did another 40% water change. Looking a lot better today, but the fish are hiding away and not coming up for food. Ill test the water tomorow - 10:30 now, and I'm knackered! Plus, ran out of Dechlor - so coudn't change the water even if I wanted to.




On another note, the LFS store replied to my question about their water for the discus room.

Our discus are in PH6.5 in half RO and half tap water.
I use seachem RO Right called equillibrium and blackwater tonic to condition the water.
I have some nice fish in and some good offers on at the moment if you want any more fish.
Best regards Paul

Rabbut (about to PM you) - Do you still see any issue in me *slowely* lowering my pH and hardness with RO Water? I want to be able to breed - I find it to be probably the most interesting part of the hobby.

 

[rabbut]

Well, there is nothing stopping you trying.

Just be shure that you keep VERY close tabs of KH, GH and pH. Disragard pH and GH for the most part, be be aware of where they are, readig wise. If the KH drops too fast, you will reduce the fishes ability to excreet ammonia through their gills, and this can lead to them poisoning themselves to death, through not being able to remove bodily toxins If you do try to change water chemistory, the key thing is to do it slowly, once the fish are settled.

For breeding, I cannot remember the exact stats, but they should be something like KH of 1-2, GH about 4-8 and a pH of 6.5. pH is least important, as it is the KH that will affect how viable the fishes eggs are A high KH makes the egg shells harder for the males sperm to penetrate, hence you get a higher infertilty rate with higher KH. If they are happy in the water they are in, they will breed regardless, it's just egg viabilty that should be affected by KH.

Some breeders report quicker growth rates with harder water, so I'd be tempted to leave things be untill you get a pair and a round of eggs, then drop the KH and GH towards the target over a week or two. Discus usualy eat the first few batches of eggs I'm told (not actually got as far as breeding them myself yet), so delaying the water condition changes untill later will have no affect on the outcomes of the first batches of eggs anyway. If left with the parents the first few times, they are doomed to failure from the outset. Don't be shocked if it takes 10+ tries for them to get their young to the free swimming stage They need parctice to get it right

If you are moving the KH and GH in the tank, add the replacement water SLOWLY to avoid any shocks. Any new water should be mixed in a seporate container, left to mix for an hour ot two, and then tested for KH, GH and pH. Any major difference to the targets, or the tank stats, should be rectifyed at this point, rather than after the water has hit the tank For low KH, add bicrab of soda. I tend not to worry about GH, unless there is a significant difference, likewise pH. You have to be carful about moving things too fast, and with a KH of 2 in the tank, you will need regular waterchanges and a light bio-load or the pH will crash supprisingly quickly. pH crash is always a risk when you soften water, so keep tabs on KH and pH in your tanks if you do lower the KH. If either slip, it's waterchange time If you are having to do lots f waterchanges for stability, you need either less fish or more KH in the tank. That desicion needs to be made by you alone, based on where your stats are, and how many fish are in what sized tank.

Usualy for discus breeding, you place the pair into a seporate, dedicated, tank to breed in, of arround 30g, though a 20g tall is OK. This would allow you to move a pair once formed and set-up the water for breeding, seporately to the other fish It would be a method that I recomend

All the best and HTH
Rabbut

 

[petertr]

Thanks very much!!!

I'm glad that you seem to understand what I'm driving at. I find watching the behavour patterns of paired-off fish to be the most existing part of the hobby. Its almost as if someone is saying "Yup, you've done your bit, and we feel like we're at home".


The advise about hard water not stopping them from *trying* to breed is a new one on me - but it does make sense. It also means that I don't *need* to change the water parameters yet - I can let them get into the habit first!


I'm not really interested in breeding to the point where I'm "harvesting" them in separate small tanks - If it doesn't happen in the main tank then so be it.




As for the water hardness itself. I think my plan is to find a way to very very slowely change it. My water changes are usually around 80 litres.
I tested a 50/50 mix the other day, and everything worked out exactly as I'd expected. Hardness was roughly halved and pH fell towards neutral (this was just a quick test - need to be more scientific with it next time).


Im thinking of perhaps 1 part RO to 7 parts tap water to begin with. That's something I can easily do and shouldn't cause a big change. After the first addition, 10L of RO in 300L of tap water won't even be noticable. Although the ratio will eventually go to 10L in 80L after a few months. This method should allow the water to slowely change, and so not stress the fish.

 

[petertr]

So..... Making the vast changes to the tank caused me to have a mini-cycle.

Been doing daily 40% water changes to keep levels down (although the levels were only ever "1 up from zero" - still that's enough to worry me)


Checked last night, and everything was back to zero. Although need to check again tonight, as I'm away for the weekend.


Holding back on new pictures until the tank is settled.

 

[petertr]

So, mini cycle definitely over. Put some new media in the 405 cannister today, as 1 draw was totally empty, and I was also running some carbon (to ensure all traces of the TCut that I used to partially remove the scratch had gone).

So filter is now 3 draws of ceramic loops and 1 of filter floss.

Discus all looking good to me, although if you think you see any issues, please let me know - Also thinking about adding another 4 or so, any issues with that?




Finally, some new pics:






Hoping that the filter floss will make the water even clearer than it is at the moment - have to say, Im really happy with the way the tank look now that I've removed the 2 internal filters.
Not 100% happy with the new rock-feature though - Im not really good at coming up with ideas for how to set up the decor!


Will let the tank settle for a while, but the next project is to get the live plants working again. I've got a CO2 system that hooks onto the tank - hopefully that will work well. Will I be able to leave my airstone on too?

 

[Jim Curtis]

It makes no sense to have an airstone and C02 running at the same time. Run the airstone at night maybe.

How big is your tank?

If you add 4 more discus you are really going to have poor water quality. Not to mention, if you add 4 small discus the larger ones will out compete them for food.

Are you sure those discus are 6"? Discus are measured from the nose to the end of the body, not the end of the caudol fin.

Those fish dont look like Alenquers. At least one of them is a common Blue Turquoise.

This is a Red Alenquer.

Most of the discus in those pics look like Blue turqs.

 

[petertr]

The LFS told me they were German Red Alexrodi, but people on here convinced me they were Alqueners. I haven't a clue.

The are probably 4-5" by that definition.


The tank is 300L with an external Fluval 405.

The filter was only partially filled: 2 of the 4 backets containing media (half filled with ceramic - didn't fill them as I ran out - this was the media I used in the box filter that I removed), 1 carbon and 1 empty -- The ammonia and nitrite were Zero.

Last night, I added some more ceramic loops so that 3 trays are 2/3 full, and also added filter floss to the other tray.
I'd say I've doubled the amount of bio-filter media in the filter - This should correspond to me being able to double the bio-load on thank, right?


I was planning on buying similar sized discus to avoid stress on smaller newbies etc

 

[Jim Curtis]

Well its pretty impossible to tell when they are that young, and since ive been spending hours a day researching these fish online and have never heared or read the word "Alexrodi" before I can only assume they thought you ment Alenquer since its the only strain of discus with a name even close. My guess would be they are some sort of cross breed mongrel fish that the breeder or lfs simply made up a name for. Although that is pretty much how all of the well known strains came into existence so its really not a slight against your fish.

Adding more fish to that tank is only going to result in stunted poorly shaped fish unless you go barebottom and forget the idea of a planted tank until they are a year and a half old or so and have completed the majority of their growth. My guess anyway. Based on personal experience and a ton of advice from very smart people here and on other forums that I chose to stubbornly ignore when I first started out.

How old are your current batch of discus? 4-5in SL is small for a fish over a year old. 8" SL fish at one year are not unheard of. 6" SL is what is considered a good size.

 

[JA5ON]

r u from Sunderland and if so u no of any gd fish shops in the north east thanks

r u from Sunderland and if so u no of any gd fish shops in the north east thanks

ok just looked were from cos having trouble findin any

 

[petertr]

Well its pretty impossible to tell when they are that young, and since ive been spending hours a day researching these fish online and have never heared or read the word "Alexrodi" before I can only assume they thought you ment Alenquer since its the only strain of discus with a name even close. My guess would be they are some sort of cross breed mongrel fish that the breeder or lfs simply made up a name for. Although that is pretty much how all of the well known strains came into existence so its really not a slight against your fish.

Adding more fish to that tank is only going to result in stunted poorly shaped fish unless you go barebottom and forget the idea of a planted tank until they are a year and a half old or so and have completed the majority of their growth. My guess anyway. Based on personal experience and a ton of advice from very smart people here and on other forums that I chose to stubbornly ignore when I first started out.

How old are your current batch of discus? 4-5in SL is small for a fish over a year old. 8" SL fish at one year are not unheard of. 6" SL is what is considered a good size.

No, I didn't hear wrong. After I got home, I checked the website to confirm the spelling!

Googled it again, and here is a link: http/www.fishchannel.com/freshwater-aqua...shades-of-truth (see 2nd paragraph, full name in italics & brackets)


If Im buying 5" fish, and leave the real plants until they're better grown, I don't see an issue.

Aren't discus supposed to be kept in at least groups of 5 anyway?

r u from Sunderland and if so u no of any gd fish shops in the north east thanks

Yes, loads.

What type of fish are you after?

 

[JA5ON]

Well its pretty impossible to tell when they are that young, and since ive been spending hours a day researching these fish online and have never heared or read the word "Alexrodi" before I can only assume they thought you ment Alenquer since its the only strain of discus with a name even close. My guess would be they are some sort of cross breed mongrel fish that the breeder or lfs simply made up a name for. Although that is pretty much how all of the well known strains came into existence so its really not a slight against your fish.

Adding more fish to that tank is only going to result in stunted poorly shaped fish unless you go barebottom and forget the idea of a planted tank until they are a year and a half old or so and have completed the majority of their growth. My guess anyway. Based on personal experience and a ton of advice from very smart people here and on other forums that I chose to stubbornly ignore when I first started out.

How old are your current batch of discus? 4-5in SL is small for a fish over a year old. 8" SL fish at one year are not unheard of. 6" SL is what is considered a good size.

No, I didn't hear wrong. After I got home, I checked the website to confirm the spelling!

Googled it again, and here is a link: [URL="http/www.fishchannel.com/freshwater-aqua...shades-of-truth"]http/www.fishchannel.com/freshwater-aqua...shades-of-truth[/URL] (see 2nd paragraph, full name in italics & brackets)


If Im buying 5" fish, and leave the real plants until they're better grown, I don't see an issue.

Aren't discus supposed to be kept in at least groups of 5 anyway?

r u from Sunderland and if so u no of any gd fish shops in the north east thanks

Yes, loads.

What type of fish are you after?

i am after cichilds i live in darlington so any were close by will be a help just all the ones in my town have closed down and the ones ma uncle used to use outa town have closed or move was a long time since he had fish lol thanks for the help

 

[petertr]

i am after cichilds i live in darlington so any were close by will be a help just all the ones in my town have closed down and the ones ma uncle used to use outa town have closed or move was a long time since he had fish lol thanks for the help

Hmm, not sure in the Darlo area. My local cichilid specialist also recently closed down.

Try putting a thread up on the "Tropical Discussions" board. There's a few of us from the north east on here

 

[mike os]

Article is very out of date....

axelrodi was suggested as a name for a single specimen by Shultz 1960. supposedly collected from Belem by a "gentleman" of that name....less said the better, There has always been some considerable disagreement over the name ( due to his very close relationship with the aforementioned gentleman, ), the location, and the whereabouts of that gentleman at the time he claims to have discovered this new species. ...

the current classification

s discus = heckle
S aequefasciatus = green discus
S haraldi = brown & blue discus

(bleher 2007)(ready kullander et al 2006 confirms the devision into 3 species, but disagree onthe name, however the name tarzoo ( originally Lyons 1959)is a nomen nudem

names like alanquer, tefe, santerem are merely trade descriptions of the locale from which they were collected, these being brown, green, & brown

from the pics yours are brown ( therefore could be described as alanquer santerem etc...) and turquoise/red turq or a variant thereof.

 

[Jim Curtis]

"Aren't discus supposed to be kept in at least groups of 5 anyway?"

You said you already have 5?