My 20G Semi Aggro Tank.

[Californialivin]

Hey guys, Just joined the forum and started my interest in aquariums. We always had tanks in the house as a kid mostly tropical communities. I'm taking care of a 5.5g with 2 mollies in it (moms tank) has about 7 live plants and some deco for the fish. I just got a 20g for my bedroom recently that is planted decent to start (9 small plants and 6 good sized ones) has a pet store ship that bubbles and a small cave in there too. So far in the 20g I have a black phantom tetra (started the tank with him)  then i added two green barbs. and all was well surprisingly. They  coexisted for 5+ days so i added 2 zebra danios and 2 more barbs today.
 
making 4 barbs 2 danios and 1 tetra so far. I might remove the tetra could it be a tank mate for the mollies or is that a bad idea? I plan on slowly introducing 1 or two more barbs and a couple more danios. I want a rainbow shark which is heard is 4 inch max or a redtail which is 6 inch max? I know balas can get up to a foot and would outgrow my tank eventually. What fish do you recommend getting for the 20 gallon tank? My mom also wants more fish in the 5.5gal it's filtered and heated and has a bubbler and airstone I know more fish equals more bioload and smaller tank equals easier crash. I'm pretty much the only person who knows anything about fish in the house everyone else just likes the asthetics of having tanks around. Thanks for any info you guys have I like what I've seen from lurking these forums hope I don't progress my mts...

 

[Ninjouzata]

Hi there May I ask how you cycled your tanks, mainly the newest one? Not sure if you have read this or not since you've been lurking but it may help http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/ Do you have a test kit? If so, what are your readings?
Does your mom or you know that her 5.5g is overstocked? Here is a thread of fish suitable for that tank. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/418749-nano-fish/
Tetras, barbs, and danios are all schooling fish so need to be kept in groups of 6+. I would not put the tetra in the 5.5g as it is already overstocked and it is unsuitable to keep a full school of them in there.
While some fish are small enough certainly to fit in tanks, other things need to be accounted for, such as how active they are. This is especially important with your danios, They should be kept in a 4ft tank due to how active they are, they also prefer lower temps.
What are the dimensions of your tank? If it's a 20g long then it might be alright for the barbs, though a 30g would be better. I'm not sure on the rainbowshark, fairly certain the minimum for it is a 30g and it does much better in a 55g. You are correct in that your tank can not have bala sharks.
I would suggest rehoming the mollys and lone tetra, and possibly the tigers as well, and starting over. I'm sorry if that seems harsh. Welcome to the forum and I hope I've helped a little bit.

 

[SamB]

 
 
Nin really covered it well and I agree with everything she has told you.
 
I am going to recommend something that can be kind of hard - but I can tell you want the best for your fish and I know that this is the best for your fish. Furthermore, you can definitely make yourself a better tank if you start from scratch here. With the tank mates you have, stocking will be VERY VERY hard.
 
Here is my favorite kind of stocking for a 20 gallon tank  (chose one option from each line):
 

• 2 Rams / 3 Dwarf Gouramis / 1 betta / 2 kribs (?)  - Centerpiece / focal fish
• 6-8 harlequin rasboras / cardinal tetras / black skirts (not with betta) - Schooling  / fill fish
• 6-8 Dwarf Corydora of one species (panda, false / regular jullis, spotted) - bottom crew
• Snail if desired / some shrimp (red cherry shrimp are nice!)

 
You would be sliiightly overstocking with this but with everyone in their own areas, and quite a few plants, this would be a faaantastic set up.

 
Here's another option - you could do a betta sorority. We can talk more about this if you're interested.
 
Welcome again!
 
(Edit: formatting)

 

[Californialivin]

I like the options you listed. Thanks to the lps i went with the barbs cause the girl told me they would be fine with a community with the other fish i listed. I can take the fish back most likely. My tank was cycled with tss i know most people on here don't like it but i've seen it work. I ran the tank with treated water and plants for 24hrs then added the first 3 fish and tss levels have stayed fine I'm following a tss guide i found where someone purposely overstocked a 5gal with like ten fish to try and get the bioload to crash. It turned out fine so i figured my 20gal would be fine as i didn't overstock at all. The black phantom tetra and 2 zebra danios and 2 tiger barbs will go back to petco and get exchanged for some things on ur list and the two green barbs will hopefully get taken back by the aquarium specialty store in town where i got them. Cause i have no where else to locate them and i don't want to have them die for no reason.

And for the 5.5g she thinks it fine the way it is and has bonded with her two mollies hopefully they do fine in that tank If not she'll learn. I know a 5g isn't supposed to have anything but a beta or small community of tiny fish.
 
 
Edit: If i keep the black phantom tetra can i use it as the schooling type in ur recommended 20g setup? like 6 black phantom tetras 3 of the gouramis and some corys and shrimp? Can i split the tetras between two species like half phantoms half of one of the ones you suggested or do tetras only school with the same types?

 

[SamB]

Hey Californialivin,

That sounds like a great plan! Man I hope those molly's are both girls....

I think the black phantom tetra is also known as the black skirt tetra. I had a school of them for a week and they actually turned out kind of mean. I think they would bully a gourami or at least nip at his feelers.

Fish put off identifying pheromones that are unique to each species, so it's important to get 6 of the same species (they'll know they're different). If you'd like, we can see about other schooling fish that would be Ok in that tank?

If you like gouramis, honey or flame gouramis might be nice. Make sure you get one male and two females. They are almost as aggressive as male betta fish with each other! (they're actually all from the same family of fish!)

 

[Californialivin]

Update: Got rid of all my previous fish. Replaced them with 5 harlequin rasboras and 3 dward corydoras to start with would've got more for each group but thats all they had unless i wanted albino corys and i like the spotting and striped variants better. The local pet stores said this setup will work better one said theres no way 3 gouramis would peacefully live with these fish though and recommended the 2 rams as you said i could go. The other shop said the exact opposite thing no rams and gouramis will do fine with rasboras/corys/shrimp. So i don't know what fish to pick for the centerpeice of the tank. Everyones recommending different options.
 
And don't worry about the other fish they got relocated to appropriate tanks they all seem to be doing good in their new homes too.

 

[Californialivin]

Im worried about one of the new corys two are fluttering around as they did in the store eating from the bottom scraps and one is just sitting on the gravel not moving been an hour or two since he got home....

 

[Ninjouzata]

Are the corys you picked up the same kind? 
It may well depend on the type of gourami, some of them have a bad reputation. But honeys stay small and are known for being one of the more peaceful ones.
Glad your other fish are in good homes now
How did you acclimate the fish? It may help to leave the lights off for the rest of the day to let that one settle in. Does it seem to be breathing hard?

 

[Californialivin]

I usually feed around 4pm a pinch a day thinking about fasting 1 day and maybe feeding the corys pellets 1 day too. but all the new fish perked right up when i fed them maybe the pet store is stingy with the flake food. I really like the corys guys thanks for the recommendation. Would they mind shrimp friends? I'm not thinking right away only thing i might get this week is a few more harlequins as they only had 5 for my school to start. Can you buy aquatic plants and wood online for reasonable prices? the plants are expensive at the small private fish store in town. petco stuff is cool but i didn't see javas or the grasses people have on here there.

Does the sex of honey gouramis matter? They had 20 in a 10 gallon at the store and they mostly looked the same to me. I know gourami females in general are silver grey ish and dont have bigger back fins.

 

[Ninjouzata]

The corys would benefit from shrimp pellets and then you can feed the harlequins the pinch of food. It is common practice to fast one day a week, yep. I fast on sunday and water change on monday.
Most people don't feed their fish on the first day (I think) although I do just for the same reason as you, when I did it they seemed to perk up, so do what you feels right in that regard I think.
Yes there are lots of places online to buy plants, wood I have had a hard time finding..this is one place that has very nice prices and beautiful wood. http/www.manzanita-driftwood.com/Manzanita.html
I havn't bought any plants online so can't recommend any sites really. I don't know if corys would be bothered by shrimp or not..I would think it'd be okay but wait on someone else to answer that one
If you're going with more than one gourami then you want a trio, 1M:2F, so yes it is important to find out their sex. Males have a pointed dorsal find while females have a rounded one is about all I know in that regard unfortunately!

 

[Californialivin]

Thanks for the help Ninjouzata, Any exeperience with Ram cichlids? I know they are picky about ph and water pretty sure they like a peaceful tank so I figure they'd be an option if i can't find good gouramis around here.

 

[Ninjouzata]

Nope sorry hon, as far as I know there are two kinds, german and bolivian. (Please someone correct me on that if I'm wrong!) and usually the german ones are more sensitive, so I would go with bolivian if you want one. They're all beautiful I think Hopefully Sam will come along shortly, he has a ram and should be able to tell you more about them.

 

[Californialivin]

Sweet, thanks again I like your tank btw hope mine gets as interesting as time progresses.

 

[Ninjouzata]

Oh thank you! I'm sure your tank will be lovely. Be sure to take some pics

 

[SamB]

Hello! Pet stores seem to be a bit funny about selling dwarf gouramis and rams since they are gouramis and cichlids. Generally speaking gouramis and cichlids can be pretty mean and aren't recommended for community tanks. These fish are, due to their small size and personality, an exception. When I got my Rams, petsmart almost wouldn't sell them to me because employee training merely tells them cichlids are a no go in community tanks. This is not the case. I suspect that's what's going on with your pet stores!

A trio of honey or flame gouramis would be fine, or of powder blue dwarf gouramis (also called electric blue or just blue). I have had a powder blue gourami - unfortunately he died fairly early on from unknown causes. There is a species specific disease called dwarf gourami disease that is fatal and unfortunately incurable. However, not all fish have it or get it, and they are very beautiful! It is important to get a 1m 2f trio as they are similar to betta fish and will likely kill each other in a 2m 1f situation.

As far as rams go, I have a German Blue Ram from petsmart. I mention where he is from because according to my research, it matters how far from wild the fish is. Fish that are wild or first or second generation are likely to require a closer ph match to their wild conditions and pristine water parameters. They are beautiful fish but can be tricky to keep. I had two, and unfortunately I lost one when both were displaying breeding colors and activity, I believe one killed the other when he got a bit.. Ah.. Rowdy.. With her. Other than that, I haven't had problems keeping them, though many people will tell you they are hard to keep.

Other ram options are gold or Bolivian rams. I think golds are beautiful if you can source them! They are supposed to be hardier than Germans. The same goes with bolivians, though I am not personally a big fan of their coloration (I think it's a little dull).

If you have any other questions, let us know! (p.s. I love harlequins! Nice choice. Plants can be hard to find, check aquabid.com but make sure you know what you're bidding on! You might check Craigslist or ebay as well. Definitely look to be upping the harleys to six+ and Corydoras to 6+ )