Mouth Rot Emergency!

[Monsk12]

Hi there,

this is pretty much an emergency. I have a 45 l fish tank with a small catfish, five platies (recently reduced from way too many as they were breeding like crazy) and currently 7 neons, three of which are new (two weeks), as is the catfish. I noticed shortly after introducing the neons, that two of them had weird looking fins. So after a few days I went to the fish shop and came back with "disease clear" to help the fins. - I removed the carbon from the filter - They didn't get much better and two neons started having funny mouths, like froth hanging from them. I went to another fish shop and was advised that this may be mouth rot and givin Myxazin for treatment. Yesterday was dose number 5 (and last) - my boyfriend administered it and I wasn't there to check on the fish, but coming back in this evening, the worst case mouth rot fish is hanging upright in the tank and not moving much (I have taken him out for closer inspection) and another two neons behave rather oddly. They appear stressed, one seems to have a funny lump on his back - only tiny one though -, twitching its fin, and another one with lots of gill movement and looking distressed.

Before administering Myxazin, I gave it a total of 36 hours after the disease clear and did a 30% water change. I checked water quality all the time and nothing was different.

Could it be that a) the treatment affected the bacteria in the tank (but catfish and platies seem alright)? b) that I should put the carbon back into the filter? c) could it be some form of poisoning?

Having never had any dramatic deaths, I am kind of running around like a headless chicken, not sure what to do. Is mouth rot contagious? Nobody in the fish shop said so, but I have looked at a certain webpage which said it was and highly so. It essentially suggested I was up a certain creek without a paddle.

Help!!!

Monni

PS. I know I should have a hospital/quarantine tank, but I essentially live in a shoebox at the moment...

 

[WILDER]

Did you run some black carbon before you changed meds.
Also did you increase aeration as meds reduce 02 in the water.

Mouth fungus which is flexibactor columnaris will look like cotton wool on the mouth, strands of cotton or bleached out lips.
is the mouth rotting away.

The lump does it go to a point.
The neons is the red stripe still vibrants, not bleached out.

Can you post your water stats please in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.
Your tanks abit on the overstocked side.
What filter are you using.

The lump does it look hard of soft like filled with fluid.
Does the lump resemble a cauliflower.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing.

 

[Monsk12]

Hi there,

isn't it typical that all these things kick off when I am not around. Was the same thing with the first signs of mouth rot, have to say in that respect my boyfriend is a bit on the useless side, but then, as you will probably figure out in two seconds, so am I!

right, here goes: 1) no, I didn't put the carbon back in the filter in between medicines. I was told to do a water change and get on to the next treatment.
2) aeration is as usual, so didn't change anything there. I suppose I ought to, any advice on a quick fix, given it's Sunday night?
3) one fish has already succumbed, and very quickly. He was swimming one moment, then stuck in a plant and around an hour later that was that. Which freaked me! The other essentially looks like he has fluff hanging from his "nostril". There is also a darkish really thin thread in it, but could just be something that got stuck? where did it come from? Again, I am rather freaked out. The other fish with supposed mouth rot symptoms essentially had what I can only describeas a fluffy snout.
4) The red stripe of the remaining neons is fine, apart from one old chap, who is generally faded and has been for ages. LFS guy (did I get the lingo right there?) said it's old age, since he really is an old chap.
5) the dead fish doesn't seem to have any mouth rot. Looking from top, his body seems swollen or slightly distended on one side. He has two lighter spots on his upper body and the blue stripe wasn't all continuously blue before he went, but a wee bit blue-greenish (faded blue, I suppose).
6) The tank was defnitely overstocked until recently, when we curbed down on the platies which bred like rats. Now only five of them left, one adult and four little babies. You think 7 neons, 1 bristle-nose catfish and five platies is still too much?
7) Water stats: I am a stupid amateur (now I am freaked out by own stupidity) - I don't have any more ammonia tests. We never had trouble before, but will have to go out tomorrow first thing and get test kit. I do water changes (~25%) once a week usually. Shall I do an emergencyy one to be on the safe side? Freaking out again... The other values: nitrate 10, nitrite 0, water hardness 16, KH 6, pH 7.2
8) Filter is Aqua-Flow 200 (dual action filter medium with activated carbon)
9) Other neon succumbed. No longer freaked out, perservation of others is taking over, so I am typing frantically! Red stripe not quite as vibrant, but also still there, it's red and looking alright, Blue stripe is only half there - front half. Turning him over, the gills look very red and somehow distended, but it could just be that since i usually don't see them swimming upside down, I am just in a bit of a shock in terms of what they look like from this angle.
10) will check out the lump again and get back to you in a little while.

Cheers again for your advice and help, I suddenly realise what an amateur I am, now that disaster strikes!

 

[WILDER]

Sounds abit like mouth fungus, which is columnaris.

Red gills can be bad water quality, gill flukes, bacterial gill rot.
Are any fish flicking and rubbing.

Signs of ntd are.
Red stripe area will look bleached out. Or look a like a milky appearance on the red stripe.
Blue area will look a golden yellow colour, abit like velvet.
Black linning around the red area.
Lumps that go to a point,
Fish will leave shoal.
Fish will be restless.
Bent spine sometimes.
Fish will swim oddly.
Later stages dropsy, popeye.

Yes I would get your water tested.

 

[WILDER]

For columnaris in the uk myxazin by waterlife and pimafix.

 

[Monsk12]

RIght, first thing in the morning will get new ammonia test kit. The pump lets lot of bubbles in the water so that should be alright? I hope?
The spot looks like some flakiness or fluff on his back. His fins are quite frayed - they were fine on Friday before I left
Platies and catfish look fine and happy. The colours of the others looked fine, with the exception of the old guy. out of all of them, he looks least stressed at the moment though, lucky grandad.
I don't think it's ntd either, but what do I know. I sincerely hope it isn't. The one who is now known as specimen no. 2 - the one with proper signs of mouthrot (and a bit of finrot, which is where the disease clear came in first of all), did do a little bit of flicking against the plant and gravel which I noticed on Friday, but intermittently. Most of the time he seemed alright, he seemed to have appetite and did feed alright. The other neons now have a bit of twitchy fins.
Any ideas when from I can put the carbon back in? Treatment of five days stopped saw last dosage administered on Saturday, so I assume it's still too early?

 

[WILDER]

Meds can make fish flick and rub and so can bad water quality.
So done the full round of med but no improvement.

I would do a water change and run some black carbon for aday.
Then start a course of treatment of myxazin by waterlife and pimafix.
You can also use anti internal bacteria med by interpet, and pimafix.
Interpet might be a better choice of med for the lump on the fish.

 

[Monsk12]

Myxazin is the one I just used. Do you reckon the sooner the water change the better and then test for ammonia? Having just read the most dire article on ammonia poisoning, I am on a level of freaking not previously seen! While you, slowly and steadily become my number one hero

 

[WILDER]

Sometimes meds can knock water stats too.
I would do a water change and increase aeration.
Take a sample of your water to the lfs and ask them to write the readings down for you.
I would pick some anti internal bacteria med by interpet, and pimafix.

With not removing the last med with black carbon, you might have overdosed the fish with meds.
Plus it could of knocked your water stats.

yes I would do a water change now and add some black carbon, as the meds not doing much by the sounds of it.

 

[Monsk12]

Water change and putting carbon back in coming up. Cheers for all your help, you're a star!

 

[WILDER]

Sounds like you diluted the med down with the water change, but didn't get rid of it completely withnot running black carbon to remove the rest of the med.
let us all know how you get on.
Good Luck.

 

[WILDER]

A good artricle on columnaris.
http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm

 

[Monsk12]

Cheers, it's a very good article which scared the living daylights out of me - time for bed I think, since I can't really hold the little fellas' flippers all night long... fingers crossed for tomorrow!

 

[WILDER]

Good Luck.
I'm off to bed too so goodnight.

 

[Monsk12]

Right, the ammonia test came back clear - as in the water was clear. Does that mean I have done something wrong or does that mean ammonia levels are non-existent? Having never been a whizz at chemistry at school, I am rather nervous at my practical skills when it comes to drop tests. Obviously there's a colour chart on the pack, but does clear mean white?