Med. Resistant Illness Killing Off Apistogrammas.

[Tolak]

Oh, I understand your frustration, it's not a problem. Online fish illness diagnosis is not an easy thing, all too often you have to take a wide ranging "shotgun" sort of approach. Your larger hatcheries have facilities for identifying the particular cause (microscopes, dissection, personnel well versed in their use) and can narrow it down & formulate a specific treatment plan much easier than anyone can online.

I've found with trying to figure any sort of online treatment it's best to start with the least invasive or harsh method or medication, and work from there. The quinine sulfate is for medication resistant ich, which is out there, but I would not assume it is that right off the bat. The copper will treat ich as well as velvet, or most any other sort of external parasite. It has external antibacterial properties as well. Metro also has an antibiotic effect, and is often used for this in dogs.

 

[FishFanatic04]

I was able to buy the coppersafe and the Metro. Not the Metro Pro, but the Seachem one for now. It will have to do until I can buy from the fish pharmacy. I have gone through a HUGE jug of carbon at this point and ran out, so I need to do several water changes to remove the previous medication. Good thing I don't mind water changes one bit. I am so practiced now that a 90% change and refill on my 75g only takes me about 30 mins....most of that is sitting around waiting for the hose to fill the tank.


I am very worried about my plants and the copper. I am sure my dwarf lily won't do well, but I may take it out and strip it to the bulb, and do a mild bleach dip. I wan't to save the healthiest of my plants. This is the one success I have had so far. All of my plants are healthy and lovely, I would hate to lose them.



Thank you again. Wish me luck!

 

[Tolak]

Really can't help you with the plants & meds suggested, as I don't do plants, I'll refer this to someone who does. The Seachem metro is the same as is sold most anywhere else, a couple large water changes as you stated will do as well as the carbon for med removal.

 

[Mikaila31]

Plants should be fine. I have used coppersafe and aquarisol on plants before and the vast majority of them are fine. The dwarf lily should be fine. Its usually just more sensitive stem plants that get a little stressed about high copper.

 

[FishFanatic04]

Great. Thank you. Most of my stem plants are replaceable from local stores but the others are not. I was more worried about my swords and the lily, etc. I would rather save the fish then the plants but both would be nice.

I will start the new treatment as soon as I can change enough water to remove the meds...Might as well wait to start water changing until tomorrow, the parasite med will have been in a full treatment.

The apisto just ate a few bloodworms like a proper predator.

SO grateful for the thoughts and ideas.

 

[snazy]

I really hope it works for you this time. I know it can be very frustrating when you run out of ideas for treatment.

 

[FishFanatic04]

Thanks, I have been losing my cool a little and embarrassing myself with crazy rants. I am a perfectionist and do my best at everything I take on, but this was so far out of my control, and I haven't been handling it well. On the bright side, I have learned more about fish keeping then someone normally would have with the same amount of time in the hobby.

 

[FishFanatic04]

Just putting an update here. I wanted a record of what I have done. I started the treatment today. There was a problem with the delivery of the medication because of a leak, and then when it was finally delivered my 2 year old was really ill, which meant my 6 month old baby got ill after. I finally have healthy kids again. It's time to work on my fish.


I snuck in water changes all week to clear the water of all medications. I treated my 46g with coppersafe, and the 10g that the remaining apistogramma is in. The coppersafe says to treat any replacement water when doing a water change. It also says the medication will work for a month in the water. I would ideally like to push my next water change to the next Sunday which is a week and a half from now so I won't run out of the coppersafe before I can get more. I am struggling a little now after spending so much on fish medications.

Is there any problem with waiting up to 2 weeks for a water change? Until this I have been OCD about my water quality and never wait to change the water.

I did not treat my 75g with the coppersafe, first there wasn't enough in the bottle. Second, I am not sure that that tank is affected. I think I may have cured the orignal parasite problem there with the other medications. The apistogramma certainly looks much better, but still thin and not a good color yet.

I am putting the Metro in some brine shrimp and feeding in the morning. Wish me luck. IF there's anything else I should do please let me know.

 

[FishFanatic04]

May I ask what I should be expecting behavior wise, after feeding the food with metro. I am seeing some very odd behavior now that I wasn't before the food.

All of the fish in the 3 tanks I treated are a little out of it. The platies are all hanging up at the surface or swimming around dazed. I expected something to happen, but would hate for them all to die today because I didn't ask. The combination of coppersafe and metro in the water worried me a little.

 

[Tolak]

Copper in the water, metro in the food only. Double check to make sure the copper is dosed at the proper rate, sprinkle just a tiny bit of metro on the frozen food. I've used this in the past on a variety of species.

 

[FishFanatic04]

I was really careful about dosing the right amount of copper and only put the metro in the food. I used the metro in the food the way it was described on the bottle, 1 measure for a tablespoon of food.

There seems to be some bad reactions with some fish, and others seem fine. I'll just watch them awhile. They have been sick for a very long time, so I expected the medication to have some kind effects. I just got a little worried. Thanks for the response.

 

[FishFanatic04]

Update: I was walking past the QT tank with the one remaining Apisto and his belly looked plump. Not bloated or overfed. Just nicely plump instead of sunken in. I don't know how to tell if it's coloring looks healthier, but I do know I can see the markings on it's tail where before I couldn't. Must be a good sign

Looks like I'll have to buy Apisto's again in the future now.

The 46g with the platy fry and cories might be headed to a better place as well. It's early to tell, but 3 of the large cories are very active where three days ago they laid in the back and never moved until I fed them. The other large cory is laying around still but a spot has shown up on it's tail...looks like velvet or something to me which may be confirming Tolak's guess. The smallest cory may have been too far gone, I haven't seen it eating or swimming around

They are not getting lethargic after eating anymore and the platies are all very active. I am still seeing some flashing.

Thanks for the help. I'll update again in a week or so.

 

[FishFanatic04]

After reading something that OldMan47 posted earlier about your tank never being safe for invertebrates after copper...I am a little nervous about my plans for snails. Will I be able to put my apple and assassin snails back in this tank when all of this treatment is over?

I planned having snails in both of my tanks and they have both received coppersafe.


Another, possibly silly question. I am not sure I will know when the cories and platies are better. I have had sick fish for so long that I have no idea when they will be fine. I don't want to have copper in the tanks forever. I saw a platy flash off of something yesterday, but most of the fry's gills have stopped looking red altogether. The 4 large cories are now in a partially active, partially still phase, I feel like they are improving. I still have a ways to go, but the platies are so hardy, I'd never know they were sick at this point. I only saw the one flash after watching the tank for 20 mins. Thanks.

 

[FishFanatic04]

Enough is enough. The fish are all still sick. I thought they seemed better but I've had 5 deaths this week.

I am fighting not to completely give up on the hobby, so I am begging for some advise to restart.

These are the points I am concerned with:

1} Can I keep and de-contaminate plants?
2] Sand
3] wood
4] tank
5] filter


If I have to cycle again then so be it. How to a make sure the tank is safe for new fish. How should I handle this? Thank you for your advise and efforts.

 

[Alm0stAwesome]

Hi FF04 - I can't offer any solutions but just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you, the whole situation is crap