Making small red cherry shrimp ecosphere

[scott_12345]

So I was going to make a small ecosphere with some red cherry shrimp in it.
I was going to buy the following items with some stones and put them in a little glass jar. Just wanted to know if this would work and if they would survive on there own or if they would need feeding.
Just looking for some more information on this, Thanks

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181933050362?var=481609386152
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322328346405

 

[fluttermoth]

Hi there

This is an interesting project, and something along those lines is possible; I've got a goldfish bowl with some plants and blue cherry shrimp on my coffee table.

However, this is not something that should be attempted by beginners to the hobby, so I hope you don't mind if I ask what experience you have?

Have you run and cycled a 'normal' heated and filtered fish tank?
Are you 100% confident you understand the nitrogen cycle, bioloads, water testing and changing?
Have you kept cherry shrimps before so you're familiar with their behaviour and confident that you can recognise anything abnormal?
What size jar are you thinking of using?

I have to ask as set ups like this with no heating, filtration and a very small volume of water have the potential to go very wrong, very quickly. Personally, I wouldn't advise anyone to try this unless they have a 'proper' set up that they can remove the lifestock to, in case of an emergency.

 

[scott_12345]

Yeah I didn't want to rush into it in case something went wrong, I have had fish tanks before but never something like this. I am a beginner and know little about it.

Would it get enough heat from the sun as it would be on a window ledge, this would also help the plants.

the Size of the tank is around 1L but i also have a rather large light bulb I was thinking about doing this is around 3-350ML(I feel like this would be too small) something like this
https://cdn.instructables.com/FE6/613A/625EZTBAUJI/FE6613A625EZTBAUJI.MEDIUM.jpg

I could feed them if need be I am just wondering if they would survive in this environment with them plants and tap water. Im trying to make something like this

this has the same stuff that I would

Thanks for the help

 

[fluttermoth]

Hmm, personally I wouldn't go that small..

I'm aware of the ecosphere idea, but most of us consider it inhumane to trap an animal in anything that small. My little goldfish bowl is 4l, and that's really about the smallest I'd consider reasonable; even then, I do a small water change every single day, and it's well planted and decorated, and has only three baby shrimps in it at the moment; I have a dedicated 55l tank set up for my main colony, so I can easily move shrimps in or out as they grow/breed.

You don't want it on a windowsill; the temperature fluctuations would be too great. Cherry shrimps do fine at room temperature, as long as your house isn't freezing,

You also have to take into consideration that cherry shrimps, unless you can sex them, will breed, even at room temperature, so you will end up with more shrimps that you started with! You would certainly need to feed them; the plants work more as a filter than as a reliable food source.

I would very strongly recommend you set up a small, planted and filtered fish tank (for shrimp only set ups you can get away with a 10 or 20l tank) and get that up and running, and your shrimps happy and breeding, before you try anything more difficult

 

[scott_12345]

Thanks for all the help I very much appreciate, ill look into it more before doing anything

 

[StevenF]

Would it get enough heat from the sun as it would be on a window ledge, this would also help the plants.

Ecospheres see any direct sunlight. The small container when exposed to sunlight will act as a greenhouse and the shrimp and plants will quickly cook. Medium indirect light is best for them. Most people that buy Ecospheres don't give them enough light to keep the algae and shrimp life cycle going and most of the shrimp will slowly die off.

Those that get enough light can go for decades with a fairly stable population. When everything is going well in a Ecosphere the older shrimp will occasionally die off due to age or lack of food while reproduction produces new shrimp. Any shrimp that dies will fertilize the water which, will push up algae growth which will hopefully cause the shrimp to reproduce.

The larger the container the better. Also it would be best to use the smallest shrimp you can find. The smallest I know of are Fairy shrimp. Some are only 3/8" long. The smaller the shrimp the more you can have in a container. That would give you the best chance at a sustaining ecosystem.

Although I haven't done this. but if I did I would start out by cycle the container with ammonia. Then you need to fertilize the water to get algae growth going (the more algae the better). cycle much of the water once per week and fertilize it. The fertilizer and algae growth should make feeding unnecessary. Then add shrimp. Once you see reproduction you can try sealing it up for a while. Things go wrong you can open it up do a water change and fertilizer the water to get things going again and hopefully resolve the issue before closing it again.

You may want to try one of these containers. A small LED light can be attached on top of the lid outside. They come in sizes from several gallons to very small:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CSG0ON2/?tag=ff0d01-20

 

[scott_12345]

Okay so if I get some plants and moss balls and put them in a jar fill it with tap water and let it sit for a few days with indirect sunlight then add some shrimp eggs (fairy or brine shrimp) will they hatch? or do i need to add some ammonia for it to work?Thanks

 

[Tyler_Fishman]

I'm starting a cherry shrimp mason jar, accompanied with Ramshorn snails and bladder snails for cycling purposes, a dwarf hair grass carpet. and a small and small plant of the Ludwiga sp. Of course I'm only planning on adding 1-2 shrimp, I have them under an LED bulb on my desk. It is relatively new, A totally closed ecosystem is a problem, you have to rely on factors that may not be prevalent, you must rely on the nitrogen cycle to help grow algae. Shrimp are constantly foraging and in such a small tank, bio film is not infinitive and will run out if shrimp are constantly grazing over one small area, of course you will need to supplement their diet. As for space. Use common sense, You obviously would not put 50 in a one gallon fish bowl. and as for shrimp? shrimp are somewhat social and do seem to enjoy being kept together, but that does not be over crowd, I'm only planning on adding 1 or 2 (I'm leaning toward the latter) to my jar. I don't consider it a matter of ethics. As long as shrimp have room to forage they should do completely fine. I don't recommend any shrimp, not even fairy shrimp unless you have some experience, I've been studying the two most popular species in the hobby for about two months:Caridina and Neocaridina, Both species are distinct and have unique care requirements. I've purchased about 4 specimens of the Cardina sp. Though they are not the species I'm adding to by nano setup. Do your research. Enclosed is a no go

 

[scott_12345]

Okay so if I get some plants and moss balls and put them in a jar fill it with tap water and let it sit for a few days with indirect sunlight then add some shrimp eggs (fairy or brine shrimp) will they hatch? or do i need to add some ammonia for it to work?Thanks

would this work?

 

[concentration]

would this work?

I guess you are fully into an enclosed system, I current run an enclosed system with some plants and shrimp in a jar , they having been surviving for 6 months already but I can tell they are just barely alive, there are alot of thing that an enclosed system can not provide, for instance, mineral in the water or soil will eventually depleted. What I am trying to say is its not that hard to get an eco system going but it's not really healthy for pet living in there and usually have a shorter lifrspwan
At least that's my own case

In my case I simply out plant and soil and a little rock into the jar , let it sit for two weeks, and after making sure the plant are doing fine , i put a shrimp into the jar and lucky , it survive s still now .

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[fluttermoth]

Okay so if I get some plants and moss balls and put them in a jar fill it with tap water and let it sit for a few days with indirect sunlight then add some shrimp eggs (fairy or brine shrimp) will they hatch? or do i need to add some ammonia for it to work?Thanks

I don't think there's any point in adding ammonia and trying to do proper fishless cycle.

With this kind of set up, you're relying on the plants to use the minimal amounts of ammonia produced by the shrimps and with enough plants and a small amount of livestock it's fine to just add them, once your plants are established; you will need to have an ammonia test so you can monitor it very closely for the first few days/week to make sure it's working out.

I don't know much about fairy shrimps; don't they need brackish/salt water, like brine shrimp? If they do then you'd need marine plants, as I believe salt water will kill most aquatic plants, so that might make things a lot harder. I have no real experience with marine set ups, so I can't really advise on that.

...they having been surviving for 6 months already but I can tell they are just barely alive...

And this is the major issue. We can probably all think of ways we think it would be cute, or fun, or interesting, to keep fish or other critters but no animal should ever, ever have to suffer for our aesthetic whims.

That's precisely why I would push extremely hard for anyone thinking of trying anything like this to have a proper, stable, filtered tank available, at all times, in case things go wrong. If your critters are not thriving, you should not, under any circumstances, be keeping them in there.

The suffering of animals might, possibly, be justified in the name of scientific research or medicine, but so we can have some shrimps in a jar because we like the idea? Or a goldfish in a bowl because it looks cute? No, no, no, not morally acceptable or justifiable in a hobby.

 

[StevenF]

Okay so if I get some plants and moss balls and put them in a jar fill it with tap water and let it sit for a few days with indirect sunlight then add some shrimp eggs (fairy or brine shrimp) will they hatch? or do i need to add some ammonia for it to work?Thanks.

You need to read up on how to set up a tank to understand the nitrogen cycle and what ammonia is for:
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

 

[Tyler_Fishman]

comparing goldfish in a bowl to shrimp in a jar is a bit of a ludicrous statement. With nano enthusiasts and the technology that comes with the nano hobby is being developed, I find that it is perfectly acceptable to one or two shrimp in a jar IF specific requirement's are met, I don't think decopods have the neurological capacity to understand what suffering is, let alone most invertebrates, provided proper care they thrive

 

[fluttermoth]

comparing goldfish in a bowl to shrimp in a jar is a bit of a ludicrous statement.

Well, yes, you have a point It might not have been the best analogy in the world!

With nano enthusiasts and the technology that comes with the nano hobby is being developed, I find that it is perfectly acceptable to one or two shrimp in a jar IF specific requirement's are met, I don't think decopods have the neurological capacity to understand what suffering is, let alone most invertebrates, provided proper care they thrive

I agree with you here too

I wasn't trying to suggest that shrimp actually 'suffer' in the way that a more neurologically developed creature would, not at all. As I've said upthread, I keep some shrimps a 4l goldfish bowl and have no issue with the idea.

It's the idea that someone could attempt a set up like this, see that their critters aren't thriving and not do something to remedy the situation, that I find slightly disturbing. I think that, as pet owners and (hopefully!) responsible hobbyists, it's beholden on us to ensure that our animals, even ones who don't have the brain power to actually experience suffering themselves, have a decent quality of life.

Surely it's bad enough that we sometimes cause suffering to the animals in our care through ignorance, misunderstanding or accident; to do it knowingly because we like the look of something, whether that's shrimps in a jar, goldfish in a bowl, a pony in the back garden or birds in tiny cages isn't, in my personal opinion, acceptable; not in this day and age when we have so much more knowledge and evidence of what it takes to care for animals properly (well, at least more properly than we used to!).

Gah, I've spent so long on this post, and I'm still not sure I'm being very clear