Lost one of my yoyo's😔, unsure of what happened??

[Lady Di]

Hey guys. Sadly, this morning I found 1 of my yoyo loaches dead. I noticed last night that only 2 were out front and center at feeding time, I assumed the other 1 was being lazy under his favorite cave. Later on, after the lights were out I didnt really see much activity from any of the fish. Normally all of them are out scavaging, thought maybe they were all resting after dinner.
This morning I knew something was wrong when only 2 came out when the lights came on. So I took everything out, and there he was in his favorite cave. He still had some color, no visible fight marks or any kind of marks/redness, but was very stiff and had a fuzzy ball around his head to his gills. I did a little over a 50% water change, cleaned the sand, filter etc.
I am very worried about the other fish, should I do daily water changes, medications? Im not a huge fan of adding things to my tanks, but will if need be.
55 gallon running for 6-7 months-mildly planted
1 Angelfish
5 female platy/2 male platy
3 (now 2) yoyo loaches
BN pleco
Ive had the yoyos for about a year, bought them at the same time.
All the others were added around the end of August. Nothing new has been added in at least the 2 months.
Nitrites 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrates 20
Temp is constant 78.
I'm sorry if ive missed anything!! Has anyone else experianced something like this?

 

[Rocky998]

Hey guys. Sadly, this morning I found 1 of my yoyo loaches dead. I noticed last night that only 2 were out front and center at feeding time, I assumed the other 1 was being lazy under his favorite cave. Later on, after the lights were out I didnt really see much activity from any of the fish. Normally all of them are out scavaging, thought maybe they were all resting after dinner.
This morning I knew something was wrong when only 2 came out when the lights came on. So I took everything out, and there he was in his favorite cave. He still had some color, no visible fight marks or any kind of marks/redness, but was very stiff and had a fuzzy ball around his head to his gills. I did a little over a 50% water change, cleaned the sand, filter etc.
I am very worried about the other fish, should I do daily water changes, medications? Im not a huge fan of adding things to my tanks, but will if need be.
55 gallon running for 6-7 months-mildly planted
1 Angelfish
5 female platy/2 male platy
3 (now 2) yoyo loaches
BN pleco
Ive had the yoyos for about a year, bought them at the same time.
All the others were added around the end of August. Nothing new has been added in at least the 2 months.
Nitrites 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrates 20
Temp is constant 78.
I'm sorry if ive missed anything!! Has anyone else experianced something like this?

Yes! I have experienced something very similar but I didnt find any white stuff on mine... I had 3 peacock gudgeons and exactly 2 days after purchasing one of them started staying near the top and started swimming weird... At first I thought it was swim bladders disease but even members on here said it was stress induced. All the color was still there when it died, it was very mysterious... And now I purchased another one to replace him after a week or two and he is starting to show similar symptoms... All the other fish are healthy... I have nothing to help but it is weird... very weird

 

[Byron]

The fungus is normal on a dead fish, that in itself is not indicative of the cause, unless there is an open wound under it. Assuming it is fungus, which it sounds like it is. Diagnosing fish disease is not at all easy, as so many causes can be behind a death, from genetic to internal to injury to parasites to protozoan to bullying...symptoms of any of these will be "sudden" death, the fish just dies we say. My first suspect here is the last item mentioned...bullying.

How have the three loaches been interacting prior to this death? Botine loaches are highly social fish, and they establish an hierarchy within the group when they are housed in an aquarium, and one of them will be the dominant (alpha) fish. It is always necessary to have several of the species, usually five is minimum, so this will play out normally. With fewer fish, there is greater chance of one of them becoming the "scapegoat" and being hounded literally to death.

 

[Lady Di]

Yes! I have experienced something very similar but I didnt find any white stuff on mine... I had 3 peacock gudgeons and exactly 2 days after purchasing one of them started staying near the top and started swimming weird... At first I thought it was swim bladders disease but even members on here said it was stress induced. All the color was still there when it died, it was very mysterious... And now I purchased another one to replace him after a week or two and he is starting to show similar symptoms... All the other fish are healthy... I have nothing to help but it is weird... very weird

It is very weird! All 3 of them were out and about Sunday when I did their weekly cleaning. It males me so sad but also nervous, dont want to lose them all!

 

[Lady Di]

The fungus is normal on a dead fish, that in itself is not indicative of the cause, unless there is an open wound under it. Assuming it is fungus, which it sounds like it is. Diagnosing fish disease is not at all easy, as so many causes can be behind a death, from genetic to internal to injury to parasites to protozoan to bullying...symptoms of any of these will be "sudden" death, the fish just dies we say. My first suspect here is the last item mentioned...bullying.

How have the three loaches been interacting prior to this death? Botine loaches are highly social fish, and they establish an hierarchy within the group when they are housed in an aquarium, and one of them will be the dominant (alpha) fish. It is always necessary to have several of the species, usually five is minimum, so this will play out normally. With fewer fish, there is greater chance of one of them becoming the "scapegoat" and being hounded literally to death.

I was hoping you would comment Byron, you have great advice and knowledge it seems .
I know they are supposed to be in larger groups, they are very hard to find. Last year I found 2, then about later I found the 3rd one. I have seen some here and there at petsmart/petco but they never looked good and 99% there was dead fish in there also.
But to answer your question, they got a long great. I know everyone says that but I watched them for a very long time to make sure no one was picking on the newby. They chased each other of course, but no nipping or serious fighting. They would chase each other then get lazy and lay on a bridge I have in there. They all had their own cave but they would often hang out in 1 of them laying on each other. The only time I really saw any fighting was aboit a day after I added the 3rd, the other 2 let him know who was in charge. After that there were no issues. Thanks Byron!

 

[Byron]

I was hoping you would comment Byron, you have great advice and knowledge it seems .
I know they are supposed to be in larger groups, they are very hard to find. Last year I found 2, then about later I found the 3rd one. I have seen some here and there at petsmart/petco but they never looked good and 99% there was dead fish in there also.
But to answer your question, they got a long great. I know everyone says that but I watched them for a very long time to make sure no one was picking on the newby. They chased each other of course, but no nipping or serious fighting. They would chase each other then get lazy and lay on a bridge I have in there. They all had their own cave but they would often hang out in 1 of them laying on each other. The only time I really saw any fighting was aboit a day after I added the 3rd, the other 2 let him know who was in charge. After that there were no issues. Thanks Byron!

This confirms my "diagnosis," I'll explain. But first, yes, I know the issue around finding one or two and making the best of it until one finds the next lot of the species; this is how I ended up with one or two of several Corydoras species, but the problem is really no problem with cories as they all get along, and the 40 cories representing 12 species in my 40g tank is evidence of that. Now to the issue here.

The "chasing" is normal, but also indicative of the hierarchy. I had a group of five Botia kubotai (a very close relative species and a much mnore peaceful loach) in my 90g tank for several years. I had lots of chunks of wood with tunnels and crevices. They would chase one another through these, as if playing hide and seek; to see the fish being chased poke his head out of a tunnel, waiting for the fish chasing him to catch up, was entertaining to say the least. I had two, the largest two, who would spend literally hours going around in a circle, head to tail; they lost their pattern, what is termed "greying out," and took turns doing the circling. My cousin saw them one day, and said my fish were fighting; I said, yes and no, they are establishing their respective hierarchy and it is "play" but also "serious" stuff, what some authors refer to as the "loach dance."

The fact that the new fish was the one being chased settles it. The two initially acquired had decided on their respective position [you seem to have really lucked out there, this is not always the case], and the third was an intruder. This is why the entire group of any loach species must be acquired and added to their tank together. This creates an even playing field, and with five (or more) the hierarchy will usually establish and no fish the worst for it. Some species can be much more aggressive though, and yours is one of these, Botia almorhae. The following is from a profile I wrote on this fish for another site:

Compatibility/Temperament: Generally peaceful, but like all loaches (to some degree) they establish a social structure within the group and there will be some in-fighting though not damaging if the fish are maintained in a group of at least five and there are numerous hiding places in the aquarium. This species is very active, and needs a spacious aquarium with plenty of hiding spots so it can be kept in a group of at least 5 or 6, otherwise some members may be relentlessly picked on and succumb to stress and injury.​

 

[Lady Di]

This confirms my "diagnosis," I'll explain. But first, yes, I know the issue around finding one or two and making the best of it until one finds the next lot of the species; this is how I ended up with one or two of several Corydoras species, but the problem is really no problem with cories as they all get along, and the 40 cories representing 12 species in my 40g tank is evidence of that. Now to the issue here.

The "chasing" is normal, but also indicative of the hierarchy. I had a group of five Botia kubotai (a very close relative species and a much mnore peaceful loach) in my 90g tank for several years. I had lots of chunks of wood with tunnels and crevices. They would chase one another through these, as if playing hide and seek; to see the fish being chased poke his head out of a tunnel, waiting for the fish chasing him to catch up, was entertaining to say the least. I had two, the largest two, who would spend literally hours going around in a circle, head to tail; they lost their pattern, what is termed "greying out," and took turns doing the circling. My cousin saw them one day, and said my fish were fighting; I said, yes and no, they are establishing their respective hierarchy and it is "play" but also "serious" stuff, what some authors refer to as the "loach dance."

The fact that the new fish was the one being chased settles it. The two initially acquired had decided on their respective position [you seem to have really lucked out there, this is not always the case], and the third was an intruder. This is why the entire group of any loach species must be acquired and added to their tank together. This creates an even playing field, and with five (or more) the hierarchy will usually establish and no fish the worst for it. Some species can be much more aggressive though, and yours is one of these, Botia almorhae. The following is from a profile I wrote on this fish for another site:

Compatibility/Temperament: Generally peaceful, but like all loaches (to some degree) they establish a social structure within the group and there will be some in-fighting though not damaging if the fish are maintained in a group of at least five and there are numerous hiding places in the aquarium. This species is very active, and needs a spacious aquarium with plenty of hiding spots so it can be kept in a group of at least 5 or 6, otherwise some members may be relentlessly picked on and succumb to stress and injury.​

Thank you @Byron! I will be going this weekend to a fish store that someone told me about to see if I can get him some buddies. After I have quarantined them and have let them grow a bit, will it be okay to add them with the 2 older ones?

 

[Byron]

Thank you @Byron! I will be going this weekend to a fish store that someone told me about to see if I can get him some buddies. After I have quarantined them and have let them grow a bit, will it be okay to add them with the 2 older ones?

This is very risky, as I tried to explain in my last post. The two you have seem to have formed an alliance--this may be because they are male and female. Any loach introduced into their space now is likely to be seen as an unwelcome intruder and hounded to death. Individual fish can express their natural inherent behaviours more adamantly or not, no one can say until it happens.

Having said that, what might work is to take these two loaches out of the tank (being I assume the tank in which the entire group is intended to be housed), move the chunks of wood (or whatever decor you have replicating wood to provide their individual homes) around to create a totally new environment, then put the two existing loaches and the four new ones into the tank at the same time. The idea here is that all six loaches will be adjusting to a "new" environment space together, and the two existing loaches do not have the advantage of owning the space as they now do.

I certainly would not recommend adding new loaches to the existing tank with the two residents "as is," this is not likely to be at all successful.

 

[Rocky998]

I agree with Byron. It happened with supposedly peaceful gudgeons. I added one more and in two days my two gudgeons killed him/her