Lost 3 More Wednesday...

KISSfn

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As I was at the bar after work getting ready to cut my birthday cake (actual bday Friday) my phone rings. It's my wife telling me she found 1 Tiger Barb and 1 Green Barb dead, plus 1 Green showing distress that she put in my hospital tank. My hospital tank has been getting a real workout lately as this is 4 Barb deaths in a couple of weeks. I rush home, change half the water, and save some to test, again. The Green in the hospital didn't make it. Water test results were pH 6.0, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrates 0 (API junk). As fluttermoth has told me pH can't be the culprit my only plausible conclusion is this... These losses are the result of my fish in cycle (before I knew better) back in April. pH 7.6 after change. Not sure if deaths caused pH drop or something unknown to me. Just needed to vent...:sad:
 
your fluctuating pH may be causing an issue. That's a pretty big swing between 6.0 and 7.6 after a water change.

true that a stable 6.0pH should not cause deaths, but if you are regularly exposing the fish to such swings it may be affecting their health.

Have you been testing the pH regularly?

the deaths should not have caused any change in the pH
 
After my last loss I checked the pH for a couple of days and it stayed at 7.6. I do a 50% water change and vac weekly. I plan on testing the pH every day now for a week. Thanks for your response :good:
 
Yes, fluctuations in pH can cause harm, so I recommend you don't do large water changes as a stable 6.0 won't be the culprit. If the problem is the result of the fish-in cycle, which it probably is, then water changes won't help.

Have you gotten yourself any live plants yet? They will help keep the pH more stable, as will some bogwood or reef bones (depending on where you want to see your pH in the long term). Make the environment better for the fish and you will see less problems in the long term.

p.s. Get a GH and a KH test kits and test those every day for a few weeks, recording the results.
 
I must admit Kitty Kat when I noticed a reply from you I was almost scared to read it! As you know, you have been trying to help me since March and I've been too concerned with keeping my expensive plastic plants to listen. Now that I think about it, I'd be willing to bet none of the experienced fish keepers here have plastic plants... I am going to my LFS today to replace ALL my plastic with REAL plants. May I have your recommendations on what to look for again please? I will also get some bogwood and the test kits you recommend. I am weary of fish funerals. Thanks for not giving up on me Kitty Kat :good:
 
Any of these should be fine: http://www.tropica.com/plants/difficulty/easy.aspx

It is best that you try out different species, in addition to the silk plants you already have. Once you get the feel for what goes and what doesn't, replace the remaining silk plants as you like.

I recommend you get the following species to start with:
* 1 Bacopa
* 1 Crypt (these will melt to start with)
* 2 Hygrophila
* 1 Ludwigia
* 1 Vallisneria

..and these specific species:
* Java moss (tie to an ornament)
* Amazon sword (1 plant)
* Java fern (tie to an ornament)
* water lettuce

Then see how those do and pick your next round of plants based on what does well and what doesn't.

You probably want to start your lights on 8-10 hours total, then increase/decrease depending on how the plants do. If you want your lights on in the mornings or late in the evenings, you could try 5 hours on, 4 off, 5 on, off for the night.. it works for some people.

Once you go for plants, it is easiest to go all the way and do heavily planted.. I have found that a half way solution is quite difficult to maintain.

For planting, take the weights and pots off, plant each plant/cutting 3-5 cm apart and be aware that the fish will pull them up and you will need to replant them. With experience, you will learn how to plant them in a way that the substrate holds them down well.

As I said, not all of these plants will do well for you, but in my experience, these are most likely to do well. There are experienced fishkeepers who do keep silk plants, but maintenance requirements without plants are much higher than with plants because if you use plants, you can get a lot closer to a closed ecosystem.

p.s. check the plants carefully for health and algae.. pick healthiest looking ones and don't pick any which show signs of algae.
 
I know nothing of aquatic plants so forgive my stupid questions.....

You say the Crypt will melt to start with. Does that mean it will slowly die off, prune the dead parts, and replace with a new Crypt that may survive?
Plants that are planted in my black sand will need a liquid such as "Flourish"?
Adding these in addition to my existing will not crowd Barbs love of open swimming space?

Soak bogwood for how long?

Thanks! :good:
 
I know nothing of aquatic plants so forgive my stupid questions.....
No such thing as a stupid question..

You say the Crypt will melt to start with. Does that mean it will slowly die off, prune the dead parts, and replace with a new Crypt that may survive?
The leaves it has when you plant it will turn to mush, but it will grow new leaves which will be fine.

Plants that are planted in my black sand will need a liquid such as "Flourish"?
I do not use fertilisers, and I do not recommend them to beginners until they see a problem with the plants. From there, I recommend that they proceed with care and try to find out what caused the problem before jumping for the fertilisers.

Adding these in addition to my existing will not crowd Barbs love of open swimming space?
The barbs should still have plenty of space..

Soak bogwood for how long?
I don't pre-soak bogwood, but it does release tannins, which do make the water look tea coloured. I like it, as do tetras, but it's mainly a personal preference. It usually takes 1-3 days to sink, depending on the piece. You might want to wait a bit on the bogwood, especially as your pH is already low.. a piece of reef bone would probably suit your needs better as it will help buffer the pH slightly up, enough to make sure it doesn't crash.
 
This might not be much use at all but I'm just chiming in that I'm an absolute plant noob/ignoramus and I've managed to have some success with amazon swords (once I moved the bristlenose who used to ignore her other food to chomp them!), corkscrew vallis isn't really thriving but is holding its own, and my java fern is looking wonderful. This is planted in sand, no fertilisers, no other special treatment, lights on maybe 4-5 hours a day because I haven't got a timer yet. So it really is doable :D
 
I don't pre-soak bogwood, but it does release tannins, which do make the water look tea coloured. I like it, as do tetras, but it's mainly a personal preference. It usually takes 1-3 days to sink, depending on the piece. You might want to wait a bit on the bogwood, especially as your pH is already low.. a piece of reef bone would probably suit your needs better as it will help buffer the pH slightly up, enough to make sure it doesn't crash.

My pH is normally 7.6 and after water changes. Still okay to add the reef bone?
Thanks! :good:
 
This might not be much use at all but I'm just chiming in that I'm an absolute plant noob/ignoramus and I've managed to have some success with amazon swords (once I moved the bristlenose who used to ignore her other food to chomp them!), corkscrew vallis isn't really thriving but is holding its own, and my java fern is looking wonderful. This is planted in sand, no fertilisers, no other special treatment, lights on maybe 4-5 hours a day because I haven't got a timer yet. So it really is doable :D
Your post is very useful and appreciated! :good:
 
I don't pre-soak bogwood, but it does release tannins, which do make the water look tea coloured. I like it, as do tetras, but it's mainly a personal preference. It usually takes 1-3 days to sink, depending on the piece. You might want to wait a bit on the bogwood, especially as your pH is already low.. a piece of reef bone would probably suit your needs better as it will help buffer the pH slightly up, enough to make sure it doesn't crash.

My pH is normally 7.6 and after water changes. Still okay to add the reef bone?
Thanks! :good:
If it's always 7.6, then either bogwood is the better choice.. I was basing that on the 6.0 you mentioned earlier.
 
Now that I think about it, I'd be willing to bet none of the experienced fish keepers here have plastic plants...

Good thing you didn't place a bet cos you'd be out of pocket right now LOL :lol:

I've been fishkeeping for around 17/18 years, been down the route of live plants and back to silk again for the last few years. I keep convicts (cichlids) and live plants don't last long with them uprooting and shredding them.

When I had live plants, I found that Vallisneria was an easy plant to keep as it tends to take root and grow without too much fuss and looks good, too. Use it as a background plant as it grows quite tall.

Regards, Athena
 

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