Looking To Breed Dwarf Cichlids

[kaivalagi]

Hi All,

This will be a long way off yet, but I am looking to keep a breeding group of either some form of Apistogramma or Ram once my current fish are moved into a bigger 5ft tank. My to be main tank will have a variety of CA/SA cichlids and so breeding is off limits in there really, but after seeing all the great experiences members have had with breeding cichlids I'd like to give it a go on a smaller scale.

I will be using a Roma 125 (33USG), and will most likely add quite a bit of bogwood (or other wood types?) and plants for a low-tech setup using the standard T8 lighting that comes with the tank (2 x 20W)

My tap water is around pH 7.5, I can maybe get it down to pH 7 with wood etc...so this has to factor in to the equation too.

My current thinking is maybe a group of Apistogramma cacatuoides or similar Apistos or Bolivian Rams maybe...

Do you have any experiences you would like to share that match this type of setup? Any constructive suggestions to give at all?


I am also toying with maybe dwarf puffers instead, but am not sure on the breeding aspects of these, very difficult I would assume? I should really post this question in the oddballs section but any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. The more I think on it the more I would like cichlid breeding though...

Thanks for any input

 

[kaivalagi]

Anyone care to share their experiences? It would be very much appreciated

 

[Wills]

Breeding programs are always good fun. Just be prepared for the fry and are able to raise them, fry tanks often need daily water changes to promote growth that said....

If your going for a breeding set up for apistos go with a peat filter, this will lower your Ph quite readily and will move your water into better conditions for breeding soft water fish. It sounds quite scary, when your altering your Ph and messing around with the insides of the filter but I think it will be easier than you think it will also give you the results you want as well!

As far as species goes, I would either go for a rare species of apistogramma. So not things like Cacatuoides or Agazzi although these are fantastic fish I just think there are other options open to you. Some names for you to have a look for, A. Panduro, A. Viejita, and A. Hongsloi. Those are my favorites but you could go for any of them at all.

I would go for 1 male to maybe 3 or 4 females in that tank, because of that personally I would go for the Panduro, because the females are as gorgeous as the males. I never thought much of the males from the photos but in the flesh they are stunning a proper electric blue with red fins and the females are just as good as the pictures if not better.

Obviously there are tons of other dwarfs you could consider, like any of the laetacaras, krobia, nannacaras, cupids and even guinacaras.

The cupids and guinacaras would work well in groups often needing to be in groups for long term breeding success, I would go for cupids over guinacaras as guinacaras grow bigger but slowly not sure how they would fare long term in a 3 foot tank. But a group of 5 or so cupid cichlids would look awesome in there.

As for tank mates with these (like all of the above), its kind of down to personal preference. I would advise against cories and plecs, cories and dwarfs sometimes end badly when cories swim into nests etc and plecs will sometimes eat eggs again defeating what you want to achieve. Small tetras like rummy noses would work as would some of the rounder ones like von rio or flame back bleeding heart. But not as big as things like columbian. Hatchest fish would work really well, bit of out of sight out of harm theory as the apistos will work around the bottom of the tank and ignore a decent sized school of hatchets, you could mix the various ones and get a pretty interesting interaction going on. So like marbled and silver, black wing, I think theres a full black one as well not sure though?

Hope thats given you some stuff to think about

Wills

 

[jacko32]

yeah the best tank mates are defo hatchets as the apisto see them above it makes them feel safer and they breed more readilly
as for which species take your pick there all awsome

 

[kaivalagi]

Thanks for all your input so far...I like the idea of some surface dwelling fish but don't particularly like Hatchetfish, are there others that like being at the surface all the time that school well? I will likely move my 3 oto into this tank too, these should be fine with any breeding dwarfs yes?
The peat filter does seem a little daunting...I'll do a bit of reading on this...I was intending on using my left over internal Fluval filter that comes with the Roma 125, would that be okay to do this job? When I hear peat filter I immediately think of an external canister filter being required...


Just to give me all the options available, are there any dwarf cichlids that breed readily in pH 7.5? Would I be left with African shelldwellers or Kribs as an option only or are their any suitable CA/SA dwarfs that could work?

Ideally having both tanks running with the same water parameters would be best, I'll then have the ability to move any stock to either tank if problems arise or plans change...but then I wouldn't want African cichlids in one and SA/CA in the other either

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">I get the sense that ALL CA/SA dwarfs require soft water for breeding...is this a fair assumption?

Thanks again for any input, it is very much appreciated, I'll go off and read about the rarer breeds of dwarfs that you've posted once I finish work today along with trying to track down any info on CA/SA dwarfs that breed in neutral/slight alkaline water if such a thing exists

Cheers

 

[Wills]

Actually yeah Central Americans often need higher Ph and you could do a pair of something small like HRPs?.... but I see you already have a male lol but yeah anything like that really. Dont think there are many central dwarfs though. But I think anything from the Archocentrus aka Cryptoheros group would work well as an option, basically anything that stays under 4 inches IMO - though depending on which species will dictate if you can do tank mates or not.

Though I think that cupids will be okay with 7.5 as they are a bit less fussy than the apistos. Peat filtering can be done in an internal its just a case of putting some aquarium peat in one of the sections of the U3, it might make your tank a bit murky but if you get a polishing pad as well it would be cool

Wills

 

[jacko32]

you could try danio's, half beaks or panchax as these all stay near the top zone
as for breading you can still put peat in your internal filter if its a fluval + series you can put it in a filter bag they may breed at pH 7.5 but your chances will be better if you can get it down to pH 6.5

 

[kaivalagi]

mmmm...decisions decisions

I just came across Cryptoheros nanoluteus or "Yellow Convict" which apparently don't grow past 3" or thereabouts...I haven't seen much available in my LFS though (but the same goes for the other options really) and I'd only want 1M / 1F so getting hold of just 2 maybe be an issue...


I did have a look at Cupids which are just awesome, sort off half way between a geo and an acara, very pretty fins too. But I got put off by the pH recommendations again and the size they can potentially get to...I don't want to have to buy yet another tank, the wife would go nuts. I only just managed to convince her that we should move the Roma into the bedroom rather than sell it, good place for a breeding tank I thought


On the subject of numbers, when paired you only want two in the tank because of aggression, but should I contemplate having 1 male and 2 females in to begin with to reduce stress? Once paired move the left over female to the other tank and hope the HRP doesn't fancy a bit That actually might not be such a bad hybrid, not that I want to go there!


I won't make any decisions just yet, I'm going to read up on the options when I get more time (I should be working right now)...I still like the idea of Apisto's so want to try and get a good idea of peat in filters etc. Also has anyone here ever done any potting of plants using peat in tights, I hear that is a good idea both for the plants and the pH?


Time to read some more anyway, well after work has finished

 

[jacko32]

have you looked on a website called dwarfcichlid.com theres a lot of excellent info on there

 

[kaivalagi]

have you looked on a website called dwarfcichlid.com theres a lot of excellent info on there

I have done in the past and just did again All those nice pics make me want a group of Apistos

Do you think there would be any change of an Apisto breeding at pH 7.5? Would it even be happy in pH 7.5?

To be honest the site is all very wordy and explains general behaviour nicely but a lot of required info seems to be missing, such as water chemistry requirements etc. Even in the "good habitat" section it doesn't mention pH requirements...

I have just finished work for the day so I will be trawling the web for information whilst having a nice cold Stella

It's been a loooonnnng day

 

[jacko32]

have you looked on a website called dwarfcichlid.com theres a lot of excellent info on there

I have done in the past and just did again All those nice pics make me want a group of Apistos

Do you think there would be any change of an Apisto breeding at pH 7.5? Would it even be happy in pH 7.5?

To be honest the site is all very wordy and explains general behaviour nicely but a lot of required info seems to be missing, such as water chemistry requirements etc. Even in the "good habitat" section it doesn't mention pH requirements...

I have just finished work for the day so I will be trawling the web for information whilst having a nice cold Stella

It's been a loooonnnng day

if you add plenty of bogwood and some leaves that would help you could add tetra black water extract too i think you shouldnt have too much of a problem 7.5 isnt really that high

 

[kaivalagi]

The more I've thought on this the more I think it would be best to have both tank's water chemistry as close as possible, it will mean I have the ability to move fish around as I see fit between the tanks.

And after looking more at what I can host in this tank, I figure I can breed a pair of any small-medium size cichlid CA/SA cichlid I want....If I see any Yellow Convicts or maybe Rainbow Cichlids available when the tank is ready I shall take that route I think

Thanks for the help guys, although I will not go down the dwarf cichlid route this has been extremely helpful....maybe next time round I'll go with dwarfs once I am happy with my setup, i.e. buy a third smaller tank

Thanks you!

 

[Wills]

Ah cool yellow cons are awesome An other option if your going down that route could be Cryptoheros Panamensis there is someone in the classifieds selling some atm in eastborne dont know if thats any good for you or not...

 

[kaivalagi]

Ah cool yellow cons are awesome An other option if your going down that route could be Cryptoheros Panamensis there is someone in the classifieds selling some atm in eastborne dont know if thats any good for you or not...

I did see those up for sale, but wasn't that impressed with the fish......BUT then I found this page

http/www.cichlid.o...read.php?t=3585

It will be some way off yet before I want the fish, just hope he doesn't sell out in the mean time...I may PM him...

edit: moving home very soon and needs to get rid ASAP, I want these probably in about a month or so...it's a shame becuase I am sure I could sell any juvis from a breeding pair, very collectable

 

[Wills]

God there dead nice! See what he says you never know