Local pond mud

[The Big Figfetti]

Just wondering what everyone’s experience has been, with using soil from a local pond or river.
I saw some videos about planted tanks where they go get soil from a natural source and use it under the sand cap, to grow plants.

I currently only have one planted tank, and I’m using aquasoil. I’m not sure how it is long term yet, but it has been leaching a lot of ammonia. So I’m wondering how natural pond soil would compare.

If you’ve tried this method, how did it work for you?

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello. I'd discourage this. Mainly, because you don't know what has leached into the river, pond, etc. from various places. You can use organic potting mixture as a base material if you like. It can be a little messy though.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

 

[GaryE]

The odds of adding pond creatures would be high. Plus the bottom of a pond is not predictable. Would there be fertilizer of insecticide run off from the adjoining land, etc?

I knew a guy who did what you're contemplating, in a 40 gallon tank, and it worked. But I tend to suspect he was lucky.

 

[Back in the fold]

I always wonder when people want to put dirt in their tank as a substrate. Way too many things can go horribly awry. Maybe in a really big aquarium that is very lightly stocked but has lots of plants but , personally , I would rather chew on tin foil and shave my head with a cheese grater.

 

[The Big Figfetti]

Thanks for the feedback! Good points about the land leaching and the pond life. It makes me wonder how it can work so well for some, or at least the people who say it has, I guess we really don’t know one way or the other.
One particular person that makes me want to try it is Father Fish on YouTube. Not sure if I can refer to videos here, so I won’t. But the way he explains things on this really make me want to try it in a small tank to see if it works, and how much trouble it is.

 

[Byron]

There is so much utter nonsense on YouTube fish sites. You are correct, it has been well proven that many of these idiots claim "x" works, but what we don't know is that a few weeks later all the fish are dead, or whatever.

Aside from very real problems already mentioned by others, the soil/mud from a local water course is not going to benefit aquatic aquarium plants any more than the aquasoil, but more to the point, this is not any benefit either, and it can harm (seriously) some fish. The nutrient value in many natural ecosystems is next to nil.

 

[GaryE]

An issue this has made me ponder - I live on a lot where the soil isn't rich. Things grow, but it isn't great. I plan to turn over an area and grow vegetables this Spring, but I know I will have to fortify the soil where I plant, or I'll be lucky to get one tomato per plant.

If I had rich black soil, I would be happy. But if I am going to grow plants in a tank, I would prefer to start with known good soil if I take the dirted tank route.

It's difficult with Internet, especially youtube sources, because while the internet is rich in excellent presenters, it is also rich in crackpots. Years ago, I had a kid from a forum sending me questions - basic questions, on a regular basis. I'm talking a beginner with tanks. Within a short time, he was a youtube star, with enormous numbers of followers. I'd wager 80% of the followers knew more than he did, but his self confidence was amazing. He was a born salesman. He did very well for himself, although what he did for the hobby can be debated.

I have noticed a certain correlation between youtubers who use their own names, as with Ivan Mikolji or Oliver Lucanus and their superb vids, and ones who hide behind online persona names, who are often sketchier. Doctor this, Professor that, this King, that Queen - they set off my BS detectors, I have to confess. That said, Father Fish is one I haven't looked at.

 

[Rocky998]

Most everyone Ive seen that has done this was in a small jar or small 2.5-5g aquarium with NO FISH.
Its an experiment. Like a little ecosystem you set up and maybe do very small water changes ever so often...
Never seen this done on a aquarium with fish in it

 

[The Big Figfetti]

An issue this has made me ponder - I live on a lot where the soil isn't rich. Things grow, but it isn't great. I plan to turn over an area and grow vegetables this Spring, but I know I will have to fortify the soil where I plant, or I'll be lucky to get one tomato per plant.

If I had rich black soil, I would be happy. But if I am going to grow plants in a tank, I would prefer to start with known good soil if I take the dirted tank route.

It's difficult with Internet, especially youtube sources, because while the internet is rich in excellent presenters, it is also rich in crackpots. Years ago, I had a kid from a forum sending me questions - basic questions, on a regular basis. I'm talking a beginner with tanks. Within a short time, he was a youtube star, with enormous numbers of followers. I'd wager 80% of the followers knew more than he did, but his self confidence was amazing. He was a born salesman. He did very well for himself, although what he did for the hobby can be debated.

I have noticed a certain correlation between youtubers who use their own names, as with Ivan Mikolji or Oliver Lucanus and their superb vids, and ones who hide behind online persona names, who are often sketchier. Doctor this, Professor that, this King, that Queen - they set off my BS detectors, I have to confess. That said, Father Fish is one I haven't looked at.

I absolutely agree and I hear what everyone is saying. But as I’m sure many know, YouTube is one of the many resources that people use to find answers. It’s another resource, just like this forum.
I have seen many of the younger ones that you speak of, with random information that you could find in a google search. But the one I mentioned is an older gentleman, that from what I can tell, runs a fish store. He has used pond soil, top soil, and even has a ‘recipe’ to mix your own ‘slow release’ soil. He has followed the Walstad method (thanks for helping me learn that term here, which is how I found this YouTuber), and he talks about how the method lacks nutrients after a year. So he found this ‘mix’ to be beneficial for many more years to come.

It must not be popular for one reason or another. His tanks aren’t anywhere near ‘ADA’ standards and gorgeous. But they’re natural, self sustaining, and interesting. I do wonder how well it would fair for a low budget ecosystem with a low bioload.

 

[Rocky998]

I absolutely agree and I hear what everyone is saying. But as I’m sure many know, YouTube is one of the many resources that people use to find answers. It’s another resource, just like this forum.
I have seen many of the younger ones that you speak of, with random information that you could find in a google search. But the one I mentioned is an older gentleman, that from what I can tell, runs a fish store. He has used pond soil, too soil, and even has a ‘recipe’ to mix your own ‘slow release’ soil. He has followed the Walstad method (thanks for helping me learn that term here, which is how I found this YouTuber), and he talks about how the method lacks nutrients after a year. So he found this ‘mix’ to be beneficial for many more years to come.

It must not be popular for one reason or another. His tanks aren’t anywhere near ‘ADA’ standards and gorgeous. But they’re natural, self sustaining, and interesting. I do wonder how well it would fair for a low budget ecosystem with a low bioload.

Yes BUT, he doesn't know what is in your local water and you don't really know either. It's not responsible to throw that in your tank and then thinking everything will be ok.
Who knows what's in that mud/water...

He may have a REALLY reliable source of water, and that's GREAT for him! But we can't assume that our water/mud/soil will be just as good.
Our rivers/ponds here are horrible. I'd never use it for anything other than one of those little jar setups.

 

[Back in the fold]

I totally agree with @GaryE about the BS detector. Corny names are a dead giveaway that the person may be a crackpot.

 

[The Big Figfetti]

Yes BUT, he doesn't know what is in your local water and you don't really know either. It's not responsible to throw that in your tank and then thinking everything will be ok.
Who knows what's in that mud/water...

He may have a REALLY reliable source of water, and that's GREAT for him! But we can't assume that our water/mud/soil will be just as good.
Our rivers/ponds here are horrible. I'd never use it for anything other than one of those little jar setups.

Very good, valid point! There are many natural waters around me that are not near ideal! But I do know of one or two that are beautiful and pristine, where swimming isn’t allowed, so there wouldn’t be an abundance of sun tan lotion and things of that nature. Those are the locations that I was considering trying, if it was worth a shot. But it sounds like it may not be worth it.

 

[Back in the fold]

One final thought. This summer when it warms up go wading in a shallow pond or creek and take a whiff of that smell that wafts up from your disturbance. That should squash the mud idea .

 

[The Big Figfetti]

I totally agree with @GaryE about the BS detector. Corny names are a dead giveaway that the person may be a crackpot.

Honestly this guy is so old, he probably assumed he needed an online name. He does seem legit in the way he runs his tanks. And I’m all about not doing things the conventional way.
As he stated in one of his videos, his relatives were keeping fish tanks during WW1, when filters and air stones and heaters weren’t a thing. And all these fancy things we use to keep tanks have evolved over time.
I’ve jumped back into the hobby to show my kids through hands on learning, what an ecosystem is and how to grow things and how fun it can be to watch things mature. I don’t necessarily want to dive in head first with the biggest and best equipment. Bringing it back to basics would suit me just fine. And doing it in a way where it could be hands off for the most part, would be ideal, if possible.

So far only my 7 year old is actually interested in having hands on. Lol but she’s testing water parameters, daily, helping me with water changes. Noticing new root growth, new microorganisms (like the white snail eggs on the leaf that I just posted about this morning). And overall, it’s been a wonderful part few weeks!

Thanks for the input. A small scale jar just might need the way to jump in, for this idea.

 

[Byron]

Something not mentioned or understood. The pathogens living in tropical water courses are not all the same as those that live in temperate water courses. Fish in the tropical waters have ways to deal with the pathogens they must live with, just as temperate water fish have ways to deal with the different pathogens they encounter. This is one reason that governments like the US and Canada prohibit the release of any aquatic life form into local waters. The US Agriculture will stop any plant being imported (most of the time anyway, maybe always) into the US, and for very good reason. I'm sorry, but this whole idea is insane. There is no benefit whatsoever, and there is a terrible risk to the fish.