Loach Size I Am Intrested To See

[vic]

http/www.loaches.com/species_pages/botia_macracanthus.html

Real good information source

 

[Lateral Line]

Fishbase does show B. almorhae and B. lohachata as seperate species. However, it also cites our old friend Kottelat as the co-ordinator, and Kottelat, in 2004, cited Menon's 1993 paper as the basis for synonymising the 2 species, almorhae being the superior synonym.

Menons work was a biological investigation, (disection and examination), and his conclusion was the difference in markings and size WAS a sexual dimorphism.

Mike, the DNA investigation you sent me shows almorhae and lohachata as seperate species, but if you look at the genetic residue differences between these 2 "species", it is smaller then the variation in some of the other single species, ie. that almorhae and lohachata appear closer related to each other then individual groups of fish of the same species.

With a species of such a large geographical range as almorhae, it does not suprise me at all that there is considerable variation between the individuals. The handling procedures in the original states mix collected fish from numerous localities before trans-shipping. A bag of 30 seemingly identical fish could possibly have had 30 different collection localities spread over 3-4 countries, extreme, but possible.

In the end, I can see both cases. I can also see the 4 Pakistani Loaches, (not called YoYo here), bought at 50mm lying around in the 6x2x2 2m to my left all well over 150mm/6" and clearly never having read either Fishbase, Loaches, Kottelat or anyone else.

 

[mikev]

Mike, the DNA investigation you sent me shows almorhae and lohachata as seperate species, but if you look at the genetic residue differences between these 2 "species", it is smaller then the variation in some of the other single species, ie. that almorhae and lohachata appear closer related to each other then individual groups of fish of the same species.

Yes, it is an interesting detail, but unf. we cannot take it too seriously right now. Firstly, the DNA work was based on only three genes: well, three genes may even prove identical in totally different species. Secondly, we have no idea where the authors got their "two species" specimen.

With a species of such a large geographical range as almorhae, it does not suprise me at all that there is considerable variation between the individuals. The handling procedures in the original states mix collected fish from numerous localities before trans-shipping. A bag of 30 seemingly identical fish could possibly have had 30 different collection localities spread over 3-4 countries, extreme, but possible.

Quite so, and of course we never know where our fish actually came from, or even if a bag was collected in a single locale.

My personal feeling is that the vast majority of Yoyo/Pakistani/Anywayyoulike loaches are actually one species, the one that exhibits the classical pattern. The others, that represent around 1%-2%, are probably other species (could be geographical variations as well).

All right, let me get to this when I have all five next to me. The two i did move are both "classical yoyo's" and --- quite unexpectedly -- they decided to school together (the effect of a large empty tank?). Will see how this changes when a non-standard added in.

 

[xtremefishyfan]

In my book is says Zebra Loaches will grow to 7.5cm (3.5in).

(Aquarium Fish by Dick Mills)