List Of Sub-tropical Fish...?

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Somtime in the near future i am moving my white cloud mountain minnows from my tropical UK 125gal tank to an unused 30gal hex after i found out that wcmm's are actually sub tropical fish rather than true tropical fish, if i can move and downgrade my 10gal betta tank to a 5gal, which is most likely posible.
My main concern is getting the wcmm's the enviroment they need, which should be easy if i can use my old 30gal, i currently have 9wcmm's(4male, 5female)- once the wcmm's are moved, i am interested in maybe putting a few other species of sub tropical fish that can happily go in a 30gal hex(its about 1ft wide and 2ft high) .
The only other true sub tropical fish i know of are hillstream loaches, which i love, anybody else have any other suggestions for sub tropical fish in a 30gal or have a list of sub tropical fish?
Thanks for your time and all suggestions are welcome .

 

[BigC]

http/www.aquaworldnet.com/awmag/a_3clen.htm

 

[dgwebster]

What about an Oranda (sp??)??? Though I think you have a stocking problem here, because although not as demanding as marine fish, stocking levels still need to be less that what you would put in a tropical tank. and personally I believe its mostly the surface area that should be taken into account when calculating stocking limits.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Thanks for the link BigC, some of the info on it though seems to be a bit off, i dunno maybe its just me, it describes platys are true sub tropical fish that are great at cleaning up algae, which i havn't found in my experience with them.
Anways, unfortunatly im not really into goldfish...But thanks for the suggestion .
I've read that some species of whiptail catfish only grow to 4inchs and be kept in sub tropical temps, but im finding it really difficult finding any info on the particular types or keeping them- does anyone know anything about whiptail catfish ?

 

[sylvia]

The idea behind 'understocking' (though you aren't actualy 'understocking' at all) coldwater tanks is all about taking care of goldfish properly - not small, low-waste producing fish like WCMMs or hillstream loaches.

There is truth in that biological filtration works better at higher temperatures but the more obvious difference is that of oxygen levels being higher at lower temps. - which is obviously an advantage. You need to drop the temp. significantly lower for the filtration to suffer and, besides, we're talking sub-tropical - not coldwater. Following warmwater stocking guidelines should be fine in this sort of tank.

A goldfish wouldn't realy be suitable regardless. It would eventualy grow large enough to eat the WCMMs and, being social fish themselves, you'd need room for at least one more - which you won't have if you consider the size of the goldfish + the rest of the fish you plan to include.

I'd reccomend a trio of American-flag fish or some mosquito fish (heterandria formosa - just be careful you don't keep them with anything that can eat a fish that's only just 1") as further inhabitants. There are also plenty of barbs and danios that tolerate lower temps. very well. For example, zebra/leopard danios (though I'd avoid the fancier types that are now a little less hardy and less tolerant of low temps.), barbus stoliczkanus, half-banded barbs and barbus filamentosus.
There's also a few tetras, such as the bloodfins, that can also do perfectly well at lower temps.
Weather loaches are another well known coolwater fish. However, somewhat unfortunately, they grow very big in time.

I just read through that link posted earlier. Let me just warn you to avoid paradisefish - they are beautiful and immensely hardy but also rather aggressive. It would not be a good idea to try keeping them with peaceful white clouds.
The link also mentions variatus platies. It's true that these also tolerate lower temps. excellently. However, it's rare that you come buy a true variatus now-a-days - most are hybrids. The fact that they are hybrids means you cannot tell whether they are good for a lower temp. tank or will suffer from it as the maculatus (common) platy doesn't like cool water much and neither do swordtails.
Also note that gambusia affinis, the western mosquito fish, is a somewhat nippy fish that's best avoided if you want to keep small or peaceful fish.

It also mentions some fish that I would consider coldwater. You can try some of these if you like but be very careful with the temperature you choose to keep your tank at (I assume you will be using a heater) because most of the 'tropical' options won't tolerate temps. under 64 deg F (about 18 deg C). Some coldwater fish you could try are: various bitterlings, fathead minnows/rosy reds and rudo. I would avoid sunfish that are basicaly the 'coldwater cichlids' and somewhat more aggressive than WCMMs and hillstream loaches could handle.

Whiptails: http/planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/G_80.PHP
and http/planetcatfish.com/catelog/loricari/G_43.PHP

 

[CroNiC]

Two Spot barb - get like 3-4 if you can.
Or
you can get paradise fish

Hope this is useful

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Thanks for the advise and info sylvia, never knew that bloodfin tetras were also sub-tropical .

Hmmm.....I've been doing some serious thinking.....Multiple questions now;
Hopefully im getting 2 more 125gal tanks in the near future once i get my kitchen floor done, the main prupose of these 2 extra tanks is to separate my common and sailfin plecs.
... ... ...
I have heard of people keeping common plecs in subtropical temps, is this ok for them? Planetcatfish.com says they can live in temps 21-24 degrees, is this considered sub tropical?
I have also found description of pearl danios been kept in sub tropical temps, (18-24 C), are they subtropical fish as well...?

If so....
... ... ...

Im going to turn one of the 125gals in a sub tropical tank !!! This will solve all my problems, as it will go pretty much along the same stocking lines as what i was going to do before, plus i won't have to move my betta.
How about this stocking for a sub tropical 125gal?

Sub tropical 125gal;
1 common plec
10 hill stream loaches
1 weather loach
30 wcmm's
20 bloodfin tetras
20 pearl danios
10 zebra danios
10 leopard danios
10 albino corys

Tropical 125gal no.1
1 common plec
1 chocolate plec
30 guppys
24 neon tetras
6 peppered corys
6 panda corys


Tropical 125gal no.2
1 para plec
1 sailfin plec
30 platys
1 RTBS
Havn't decided on rest of stocking...

 

[SamUK]

ok ill be the stupid one.


whats sub tropical

 

[MegTheFish]

Sub tropical 125gal;
1 common plec
10 hill stream loaches
1 weather loach
30 wcmm's
20 bloodfin tetras
20 pearl danios
10 zebra danios
10 leopard danios
10 albino corys

That would work, you could also go with bronze cories if you want two different types of cories. Just wanted to point out that the wheather(dojo) loaches like to be kept in groups. I myself only have a single wheather loach and he seems fine, but since you have such a big tank and lots of room I don't see why you couldn't add atleast 2 more. Personally, I would go with atleast 10, that would be awesome IMO.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

ok ill be the stupid one.


whats sub tropical

It basically means its inbetween tropical and coldwater- tropical temps are pretty much anything above 23degrees, sub tropical are anything between 23degrees to 18, and coldwater is 18degrees and below("i think")- anyone correct me if i am wrong .

Sub tropical 125gal;
1 common plec
10 hill stream loaches
1 weather loach
30 wcmm's
20 bloodfin tetras
20 pearl danios
10 zebra danios
10 leopard danios
10 albino corys

That would work, you could also go with bronze cories if you want two different types of cories. Just wanted to point out that the wheather(dojo) loaches like to be kept in groups. I myself only have a single wheather loach and he seems fine, but since you have such a big tank and lots of room I don't see why you couldn't add atleast 2 more. Personally, I would go with atleast 10, that would be awesome IMO.

Oooh...I really don't know much on weather loaches, if they are supposed to be kept in groups though i will try that , are they agressive at all ? The info on the internet on how big they grow varys loads?

 

[sylvia]

That would work as long as the temp. is not too low. Like you said, plecs can deal with lower temps - but they are not realy sub-tropical. If you go for a temp. of about 69 deg F (around 20 deg C), you should be able to keep everything you have planned without serious compromises. Just keep in mind that, the hillstream loaches especialy, will want a very strong current and highly aerated water - everyone else will appreciate it too.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

That would work as long as the temp. is not too low. Like you said, plecs can deal with lower temps - but they are not realy sub-tropical. If you go for a temp. of about 69 deg F (around 20 deg C), you should be able to keep everything you have planned without serious compromises. Just keep in mind that, the hillstream loaches especialy, will want a very strong current and highly aerated water - everyone else will appreciate it too.

Thats cool, i have alot of spare filters i can move to the new tank when it comes- my current 125gal has 5filters running in it at the mo, and i have another 3 spare ones(dont ask me how i ended up with so many filters )- so i can clone the tanks and get the new one instantley cycled on day 1.
One of the common plecs is fully grown, and as far as i know, should be ok in the cooler temp because of this- after a little research it appears they only need to be in warmer more tropical temps when they are a year or younger old- mine are about 2yrs old.
This is so awesome though !
I really, really appreiciate everyones help in getting this sorted, i already have the common plecs, 10 pearl danios and 9 wcmm's- soo all i need to do is move them when i get the new tank and add on the numbers and get the hillstream and weather loaches plus the extra danio species and bloodfin tetras .

 

[MegTheFish]

I wouldn't say wheather loachs are aggressive, mine can be a little bit pushy with my goldfish but he doesn't bother my danios or any other bottom feeders. I love my guy though, he comes up to the top to eat all the time, he's very tame. And fat LoL. He can stuff more in his mouth then the goldfish.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

How big is your weather loach?

 

[SamUK]

thanx tokis.

cleared that one up nicely .