shouldn't a responsible seller list how big a fish will grow???

[Magnum Man]

shouldn't a responsible vendor post how large a fish gets as an adult???

I'm not intentionally picking on Wet Spot, as I believe they are a pretty good vendor... I don't like that a lot of fish they have for sale, don't have descriptions done... I was zooming through "what's new", and found this fish, which looks very interesting...

Raiamas cf. senegalensis The Wet Spot Tropical Fish |​

Raiamas cf. senegalensis The Wet Spot Tropical Fish |

www.wetspottropicalfish.com

BTW... the common name is the African Trout Minnow

so, off I had to go, in search of info... imagine my surprise, that these "minnows" grow to 9 inches long, and are supposed to be kept in a group of 5-6...

nice looking fish... but I guess I have to pass...

I see they were also listed here, albeit out of stock...

African Trout Minnow (Raiamas senegalensis)​

The African Trout Minnow (Raiamas senegalensis) is found throughout western Africa. This streamlined fish can often be found in the wild schooling with other predatory characins like Tigerfish. They will feel most comfortable being kept with larger dither fish with which they can school. African...

www.aqua-imports.com

 

[Fishkeeper123]

shouldn't a responsible vendor post how large a fish gets as an adult???

I'm not intentionally picking on Wet Spot, as I believe they are a pretty good vendor... I don't like that a lot of fish they have for sale, don't have descriptions done... I was zooming through "what's new", and found this fish, which looks very interesting...

Raiamas cf. senegalensis The Wet Spot Tropical Fish |​

Raiamas cf. senegalensis The Wet Spot Tropical Fish |

www.wetspottropicalfish.com

BTW... the common name is the African Trout Minnow

so, off I had to go, in search of info...imagine my surprise, that these "minnows" grow to 9 inches long, and are supposed to be kept in a group of 5-6...

nice looking fish... but I guess I have to pass...

I see they were also listed here, albeit out of stock...

African Trout Minnow (Raiamas senegalensis)​

The African Trout Minnow (Raiamas senegalensis) is found throughout western Africa. This streamlined fish can often be found in the wild schooling with other predatory characins like Tigerfish. They will feel most comfortable being kept with larger dither fish with which they can school. African...

www.aqua-imports.com

I think they should put what size they grow to because someone may go and get a group of 6-8 for there community tank assuming it’s like a WCMM. They would be in for a big shock and the fish store should ensure the size of the fish is told so they are informed on what they are getting.

 

[GaryE]

There is a point where you learn to look these things up, as you did. A person who WANTS that fish to get to 9 inches but never changes water, feeds it inadequately, etc, will complain like mad if it stunts, and a person too lazy to google the fish will get mad if it doesn't stay at 2 inches...

Anyone spending $24.99 for what appears to be a shoaling fish had better look it up. If I go into a store and see something interesting I'm not familiar with, I'm on the phone looking it up. I reach for google before I reach for my wallet. That's common sense.

There are a lot of shoulds and shouldn't for stores, but they're subjective. If I had a store, it wouldn't sell some popular fish without special orders. But these stores are still in business, and I don't run a shop...

Knowledge is power, and choosing powerlessness is never a good strategy.

 

[emeraldking]

shouldn't a responsible seller list how big a fish will grow???​

I'd say yes...! But unfortunately, they hardly do that. Most aquarium fish will be sold at a small size to make them more adorable to sell.

 

[GaryE]

What do you do?
Pacus used to be in the chain stores, and I saw a tiny one being sold to a man who was being told a 10 gallon would do. The fish would get bigger than the child he was holding. Or it would if given a chance. To the seller, it was disposable life. It would be dead in a short time. It wouldn't get big.
Show size, and how many common plecos would sell? Oscars? Dempseys? Chinese algae eaters? Bala sharks? And hose are ordinary fish that have been kept for decades.

The wet spot is a cutting edge dealer. They get the new and exciting, and the hard to get. Many of the fish aren't well known. They draw from the "into it" pool of aquarists. They aren't a beginner's shop.
I'm sure they also get surprises in terms of how big some fish get in captivity. They may stop at 5 inches in a predator filled river, but in a tank that's well set up, some species can live longer and grow a lot bigger than expected. Better to be silent than be wrong in that sort of business.

 

[anewbie]

shouldn't a responsible vendor post how large a fish gets as an adult???

NO; because there are many things you need to know about a species before you buy it - i'll list a few:
size
group/single
hard/soft water
temperature range
aggression level
jumper
delicate/robust
activity level
require strong current, gentle current or no current
.
.
.
Some sites do list more information - aquaticarts, impericaltropical, ... but while they may list more information they don't list enough to determine if it is suitable for your environment. You should imho understand the fish you are buying before you buy it - else you might walk into your local petco and buy the famous red-tail shark or common pleco....

 

[jaylach]

I totally agree that shipping and adult size should be disclosed which is one of the things I respect about Dan's Fish as they disclose both. It would be nice if a seller disclosed ALL info on a fish but then they would be so busy describing that they would not have time to sell.

The biggest problem I see is the newbie that just does not have the knowledge to know to research each fish they want to make sure they can go together.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Shouldn't a responsible fishkeeper research any potential species they are thinking about getting before they get it?

When I was considering what my first stocking in my first tank would be I had already purchased the Baensch Aquarium Atlas. It is well illustrated. I went through it looking at fish pics for what appealed to me. If I liked the picture, I would hen read all about the fish to determine if it would work in my tanks and with the other stock I had planned to get.

The one thing I had to learn for myself was live bearer math. My second tank was set up to grow out swordtail babies.

And considering what Dan's charges, he should almost come to your house and feed the fish for you.

Plus hid info may not be that accurate for some things. This info is apparently included for many of not all the fish he sells:

Water Parameters: We keep all our fish at a temperature of 79 F.


Our pH measures around 8.3 with a KH and GH a bit over 300ppm. That being said, we want to caution folks with different water parameters from thinking that they need to change their water for our fish. We have many customers in the Pacific Northwest, Upstate New York, and other areas that have very soft water. Our fish do just fine in their water without any parameter matching. What is most important is that the water our fish are put in upon arrival have steady parameters, not that your water parameters match ours.

Fish from the big bend of the Rio Xingu are subject to seasonal changes in their parameters. The onset of the rainy season sees substantial changes in temp. and hardness and does so very rapidly. When advising new keepers interested in breeding how to conduct a dry rainy I make sure to emphasize that the dry needs to be slow 3 months not 3 week, Also that the hardness per se is not specific. What is specific is the hardness needs to be at least cut in half very rapidly and the water temp needs to be dropped by about 15 degrees F. For the species in this part of the river this is the case for all the fish living there. The dry.rainy season cycle is normal for such fish.

 

[gwand]

I agree with Anewbie…..However if only the uninformed customers suffered from buying a fish they can’t take care of, I say let the buyer beware. But the poor fish suffers more. It’s in the best interest of the fish for the seller to list all useful and necessary parameters for the care of the fish.

 

[jaylach]

Shouldn't a responsible fishkeeper research any potential species they are thinking about getting before they get it?

When I was considering what my first stocking in my first tank would be I had already purchased the Baensch Aquarium Atlas. It is well illustrated. I went through it looking at fish pics for what appealed to me. If I liked the picture, I would hen read all about the fish to determine if it would work in my tanks and with the other stock I had planned to get.

The one thing I had to learn for myself was live bearer math. My second tank was set up to grow out swordtail babies.

The problem isn't the responsible keeper but the new person that makes the mistake of relying on advice from chain stores. These people believe what the store employee says as they just don't know better and think the employee is knowledgeable. The newbie just tends to trust the store employee that may know no more than fish usually do better in water.

 

[Innesfan]

The wet spot is a cutting edge dealer. They get the new and exciting, and the hard to get. Many of the fish aren't well known. They draw from the "into it" pool of aquarists. They aren't a beginner's shop.
.

So well put and to the point. And I would add that they are invested in getting things right and fixing the occasional error. They had misidentified Nannostomus minimus years ago and I wrote them about it. They not only corrected it but now ask me to identify a Nannostomus import from time to time. This in contrast to Dan's, who is currently selling N. marilynae as N. trifasciatus despite several emails from me attempting to correct it.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am not a doctor and I have no medical training. But I research any new med I am told to use. I have decided not to take a few things orver the years and have told the doctor of this and ask if there is an alternative. If I am to have a procedure, I also research that.

 

[GaryE]

I'll be a devil's advocate here.
Suppose a store offered an article on every fish they sold. It had all the details, pros and cons - all the basics covered.

Most buyers wouldn't read it.

How many times in the many years forums have been around have you read "I know it gets too big but I'll buy a large enough tank when it gets there." How many times has that actually happened? Even with the info, a hefty number of buyers will ignore all the facts and go with their whims.

People who seem to care about animal care won't even learn. Yesterday, I heard a sincere young store person giving awful advice. Don't cycle. Treat for chloramines (not used in our city) and let the tank sit unoccupied for 2 weeks. Then it's ready.

How available are the basics of the cycle? It's everywhere, if you bother to learn. How many people really do the necessary water changes, compared to how many pick a half baked guru who says aquariums can be natural ecosystems, or that aquariums don't need fresh water? I have a friend who goes through little red Bororas like popcorn. When I had them here, the group expanded. The only difference is how we keep fish is I do weekly changes, and she does changes sometimes. She buys about 10 a month to maintain her group of 50 (which I gave her when I moved on from the group - I had Bororas maculatus). She is a very smart person with a responsible job, but water changes? Boring. Endless replacement? Yeah!

People just work that way sometimes. All we can do is ensure we do it differently.

 

[gwand]

I don’t care if the naive buyer suffers for not doing their homework but I do care that the poor fish will suffer. Therefore I want the seller to post all necessary information for a fish to thrive.

 

[anewbie]

Dan's, who is currently selling N. marilynae as N. trifasciatus despite several emails from me attempting to correct it.

That is a big mistake; n. marilynae is a wonderful fish; n. trifasciatus not so much....