Lights

[kuzyaburst]

I recently got a whole bunch of plants for my tank, but I don't have enough light... I currently only get about .80 watts a gallon (36g). I want to have atleast 2-2.5 watts a gallon. My tank length is 30 inches and my current light is a 24 inch 17 watt t8 bulb. Is there anything I can get to get the 2.5 watts that I need? I was looking at LED stuff and don't really know much about it, is it any good for planted tanks? I don't mind doing a DIY light fixture either, I just don't know what light to get.

OK, so I looked into CFL bulbs and I like the idea of having the lamp type of fixture. But the bulbs I've been seeing are huge! They're like 8" in length! Is there any smaller bulbs that'll do the work and have 5000-7000K? I also can't seem to find many lamps for that size of bulb (8") I don't mind getting a bulb that big but my problem is finding a lamp that can hold it.

 

[Gvilleguy]

Hi kuzy, I have gone away from bulbs and now only use LEDs on my tanks. I have a 3 foot wide 40-gallon with a Finnex Ray2 30" strip, and a 10-gallon with a Finnex Fugeray Planted+ 16" strip. You can find reviews of these on Amazon, and they have many different sizes. I believe these are in the 7000K range, but they don't really give you watts per gallon. You have to look at the par rating published by Finnex and look at the depth of your tank, etc.
 
They work well for me, but the big drawback is $$$. Not cheap.

 

[Byron]

There are good LED systems available, but they are expensive.  The balance is that the operating cost is minimal by comparison to fluorescent tubes or CFL bulbs.  But you need to know what you need and know the fixture, as some are useless.  I only tried LED once, with failure, so I will not suggest suitable options in LED.
 
To more general issues.  Watts is only a measurement of the amount of energy (electricity) a bulb or tube uses to produce the light.  Except when compariing identical bulbs, such as a 10w GE CFL Daylight 6500K with a 13w GE CFL Daylight 6500K, watts is basically useless as an indicator of light intensity or anything else.  So the old "watts per gallon" guides are meaningless with anything but the older basic tubes.
 
The light you now have, a 24-inch T8 tube over a 36g tank, is low to slightly moderate light.  I have this same tube over my 30-inch 29g tank, and I have experimented with several tubes.  If you use one of the better tubes, such as the Hagen Life-Glo T8, you will be able to grow several plants quite well, but not high-light ones.  I have swords (the pygmy chain and a regular Amazon sword) in my present 29g, but previously with this light I have grown crypts, Java Fern and Java Moss as well.  These latter of course are low light, the swords moderate.  Depending what you want in terms of a planted tank, this may be adequate, or it may not.
 
When moving up from the existing T8, you have to be careful and it is easy to get light that is too bright, and then algae will plague your tank.  And not all plants need this bright a light.  Balance is the key.  I may be able to explain more when I have a better idea of what you are after in terms of a planted tank, including the fish species as light is very important for fish too.
 
Byron.

 

[kuzyaburst]

There are good LED systems available, but they are expensive.  The balance is that the operating cost is minimal by comparison to fluorescent tubes or CFL bulbs.  But you need to know what you need and know the fixture, as some are useless.  I only tried LED once, with failure, so I will not suggest suitable options in LED.
 
To more general issues.  Watts is only a measurement of the amount of energy (electricity) a bulb or tube uses to produce the light.  Except when compariing identical bulbs, such as a 10w GE CFL Daylight 6500K with a 13w GE CFL Daylight 6500K, watts is basically useless as an indicator of light intensity or anything else.  So the old "watts per gallon" guides are meaningless with anything but the older basic tubes.
 
The light you now have, a 24-inch T8 tube over a 36g tank, is low to slightly moderate light.  I have this same tube over my 30-inch 29g tank, and I have experimented with several tubes.  If you use one of the better tubes, such as the Hagen Life-Glo T8, you will be able to grow several plants quite well, but not high-light ones.  I have swords (the pygmy chain and a regular Amazon sword) in my present 29g, but previously with this light I have grown crypts, Java Fern and Java Moss as well.  These latter of course are low light, the swords moderate.  Depending what you want in terms of a planted tank, this may be adequate, or it may not.
 
When moving up from the existing T8, you have to be careful and it is easy to get light that is too bright, and then algae will plague your tank.  And not all plants need this bright a light.  Balance is the key.  I may be able to explain more when I have a better idea of what you are after in terms of a planted tank, including the fish species as light is very important for fish too.
 
Byron.

I see thanks for the response, I currently have Amazon swords, java fern, banana plants, rotala indicas, hygro wysterias, cabomba, and an anubias nana. I'm not fully understanding the lighting stuff. Many people tell me to get more watts per gallon, but then there are people who have low watts per gallon and still grow high light plants amazingly. The current light that I have is an Aqueon 24 inch 17 watt light (came with a kit). So is it better to go for CFLs or tubes? Which is better for the price? Also if you have time can you take a picture of your tank I want to see what that bulb you were talking about looks like in a tank.

Hi kuzy, I have gone away from bulbs and now only use LEDs on my tanks. I have a 3 foot wide 40-gallon with a Finnex Ray2 30" strip, and a 10-gallon with a Finnex Fugeray Planted+ 16" strip. You can find reviews of these on Amazon, and they have many different sizes. I believe these are in the 7000K range, but they don't really give you watts per gallon. You have to look at the par rating published by Finnex and look at the depth of your tank, etc.
 
They work well for me, but the big drawback is $$$. Not cheap.

Hmmm, yeah I don't know if i'll be able to afford a good LED fixture if it costs a lot. Thanks for the response i'll look more into the different types of light.

There are good LED systems available, but they are expensive.  The balance is that the operating cost is minimal by comparison to fluorescent tubes or CFL bulbs.  But you need to know what you need and know the fixture, as some are useless.  I only tried LED once, with failure, so I will not suggest suitable options in LED.
 
To more general issues.  Watts is only a measurement of the amount of energy (electricity) a bulb or tube uses to produce the light.  Except when compariing identical bulbs, such as a 10w GE CFL Daylight 6500K with a 13w GE CFL Daylight 6500K, watts is basically useless as an indicator of light intensity or anything else.  So the old "watts per gallon" guides are meaningless with anything but the older basic tubes.
 
The light you now have, a 24-inch T8 tube over a 36g tank, is low to slightly moderate light.  I have this same tube over my 30-inch 29g tank, and I have experimented with several tubes.  If you use one of the better tubes, such as the Hagen Life-Glo T8, you will be able to grow several plants quite well, but not high-light ones.  I have swords (the pygmy chain and a regular Amazon sword) in my present 29g, but previously with this light I have grown crypts, Java Fern and Java Moss as well.  These latter of course are low light, the swords moderate.  Depending what you want in terms of a planted tank, this may be adequate, or it may not.
 
When moving up from the existing T8, you have to be careful and it is easy to get light that is too bright, and then algae will plague your tank.  And not all plants need this bright a light.  Balance is the key.  I may be able to explain more when I have a better idea of what you are after in terms of a planted tank, including the fish species as light is very important for fish too.
 
Byron.

If I get 2 of the 24" ones for my tank do you think they will be able to grow all of my plants nicely.          http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12765&cmpid=03csegpl&ref=6111&subref=AA&CAWELAID=525413222&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=530005150000135586&cadevice=c

 

[Byron]

I see thanks for the response, I currently have Amazon swords, java fern, banana plants, rotala indicas, hygro wysterias, cabomba, and an anubias nana. I'm not fully understanding the lighting stuff. Many people tell me to get more watts per gallon, but then there are people who have low watts per gallon and still grow high light plants amazingly. The current light that I have is an Aqueon 24 inch 17 watt light (came with a kit).
 

 
With your present light you will not have success with some of the named plants.  And even if you went to the Life-Glo single tube, some of these would still not make it.  Specifically, cabomba (this is a difficult plant, requiring very good light), wisteria, maybe the rotala.  I have no luck at all with cabomba in any of my 7 tanks, and thelast time I tried it was in my 10g which has two 10w CFL Daylight bulbs, thinking this would be "brighter" but it slowly fell apart.  Of course, my very soft water may have something to do with this too, and given the fish in the 10g I was not prepared to increase the GH.  These three are all stem plants, and in general stem plants need more light and nutrients because they are very fast growing plants.  The only stem plant that I have had thrive in my tanks is Brazilian Pennywort, which also makes a very nice floating plant.
 
As I mentioned previously, watts is not a reliable indicator of light intensity.  It depends upon the way the tube/bulb is manufactured, and these days with the emphasis on using less energy, manufacturers are coming up with tubes and bulbs that use far less energy (watts) to produce more light.  Over my largest tank, a five-foot 115g, I have two 48-inch T8 tubes at 32w each.  These used to be 40w, but they are now being made to use less energy but produce equal or actually a bit more light.  But T5 tubes (which need a different fixture) would have a very different wattage.  And LED quite different again; these would be lower wattage.
 
 

So is it better to go for CFLs or tubes? Which is better for the price?
 

 
If you know what you are getting, LED is probably the way to go.  I've no experience except the one miserable failure (and that was advertised as a "planted tank" fixture comparable to my twin T8 tube one that gave out), and I have stayed with T8 simply because I know what it is and it works for my plants.  You also have to watch the colour temperature, which is the light colour wavelengths.  The LED I had was too blue and the fish looked hideous on top of everything else.
 

If I get 2 of the 24" ones for my tank do you think they will be able to grow all of my plants nicely.          http/www.drsfoster...5586&cadevice=c
 

 
 
This will be a vast improvement, over your tank.  But I would think some of those stem plants will still not make it, for the reasons I outlined above.
 

Also if you have time can you take a picture of your tank I want to see what that bulb you were talking about looks like in a tank.
 

 
I'll attach a photo of what the 29g looked like then (it is different now), along with my 33g which is 3-feet with just one T8, also a Life-Glo 25w 30-inch tube.  Both of these are low to slightly moderate, so the plants have to be similar.  Of course, I also have floating plants which reduces light, and all my tanks have floaters because the fish are more settled with them, and my prime concern is my fish with the plants secondary so I stay with what works.  I'll also add a photo of the 70g which has two T8 tubes, one 5000K and one 6500K, but the inexpensive Sylvania tubes which work fine with two in the 48-inch length.  I tried one of these in the 29g and within a few weeks all the plants died due to the low light and they didn't rebound until I put a Life-Glo in.  This is an example of what I meant earlier about watts; the Life-Glo 20w tube puts out considerably more light than the GE 20-watt tube, simply because of how it is made.

 

[kuzyaburst]

 

I see thanks for the response, I currently have Amazon swords, java fern, banana plants, rotala indicas, hygro wysterias, cabomba, and an anubias nana. I'm not fully understanding the lighting stuff. Many people tell me to get more watts per gallon, but then there are people who have low watts per gallon and still grow high light plants amazingly. The current light that I have is an Aqueon 24 inch 17 watt light (came with a kit).
 

 
With your present light you will not have success with some of the named plants.  And even if you went to the Life-Glo single tube, some of these would still not make it.  Specifically, cabomba (this is a difficult plant, requiring very good light), wisteria, maybe the rotala.  I have no luck at all with cabomba in any of my 7 tanks, and thelast time I tried it was in my 10g which has two 10w CFL Daylight bulbs, thinking this would be "brighter" but it slowly fell apart.  Of course, my very soft water may have something to do with this too, and given the fish in the 10g I was not prepared to increase the GH.  These three are all stem plants, and in general stem plants need more light and nutrients because they are very fast growing plants.  The only stem plant that I have had thrive in my tanks is Brazilian Pennywort, which also makes a very nice floating plant.
 
As I mentioned previously, watts is not a reliable indicator of light intensity.  It depends upon the way the tube/bulb is manufactured, and these days with the emphasis on using less energy, manufacturers are coming up with tubes and bulbs that use far less energy (watts) to produce more light.  Over my largest tank, a five-foot 115g, I have two 48-inch T8 tubes at 32w each.  These used to be 40w, but they are now being made to use less energy but produce equal or actually a bit more light.  But T5 tubes (which need a different fixture) would have a very different wattage.  And LED quite different again; these would be lower wattage.
 
 
So is it better to go for CFLs or tubes? Which is better for the price?
 

 
If you know what you are getting, LED is probably the way to go.  I've no experience except the one miserable failure (and that was advertised as a "planted tank" fixture comparable to my twin T8 tube one that gave out), and I have stayed with T8 simply because I know what it is and it works for my plants.  You also have to watch the colour temperature, which is the light colour wavelengths.  The LED I had was too blue and the fish looked hideous on top of everything else.
 

If I get 2 of the 24" ones for my tank do you think they will be able to grow all of my plants nicely.          http/www.drsfoster...5586&cadevice=c
 

 
 
This will be a vast improvement, over your tank.  But I would think some of those stem plants will still not make it, for the reasons I outlined above.
 

Also if you have time can you take a picture of your tank I want to see what that bulb you were talking about looks like in a tank.
 

 
I'll attach a photo of what the 29g looked like then (it is different now), along with my 33g which is 3-feet with just one T8, also a Life-Glo 25w 30-inch tube.  Both of these are low to slightly moderate, so the plants have to be similar.  Of course, I also have floating plants which reduces light, and all my tanks have floaters because the fish are more settled with them, and my prime concern is my fish with the plants secondary so I stay with what works.  I'll also add a photo of the 70g which has two T8 tubes, one 5000K and one 6500K, but the inexpensive Sylvania tubes which work fine with two in the 48-inch length.  I tried one of these in the 29g and within a few weeks all the plants died due to the low light and they didn't rebound until I put a Life-Glo in.  This is an example of what I meant earlier about watts; the Life-Glo 20w tube puts out considerably more light than the GE 20-watt tube, simply because of how it is made.
 


where did you get a 30 inch lifeglow tube? I can't seem to find any. I only see 18", 24", and 48"

 

[Byron]

A couple of my local fish stores sell the "Glo" line of tubes, though they seem to be going with the T5 and clearing out the T8 lately.  I may not be able to find one again myself...but that particular tank is my oldest and the fluorescent fixture is slow-starting (not an electronic ballast), so when this present tube is finished I am thinking I may look into LED again.
 
Tubes do give out, long before they burn out.  T8 generally last 12 months, though their intensity will be less long before then, but I replace mine every 12 months.  Continuing to use the tube past this point almost invariably causes algae (algae takes advantage when the light is less than what the plants need to drive photosynthesis) and I found this when I left a couple of mine to see how long.
 
Byron.

 

[kuzyaburst]

A couple of my local fish stores sell the "Glo" line of tubes, though they seem to be going with the T5 and clearing out the T8 lately.  I may not be able to find one again myself...but that particular tank is my oldest and the fluorescent fixture is slow-starting (not an electronic ballast), so when this present tube is finished I am thinking I may look into LED again.
 
Tubes do give out, long before they burn out.  T8 generally last 12 months, though their intensity will be less long before then, but I replace mine every 12 months.  Continuing to use the tube past this point almost invariably causes algae (algae takes advantage when the light is less than what the plants need to drive photosynthesis) and I found this when I left a couple of mine to see how long.
 
Byron.

huh alright, here's what my tank currently looks like btw                            

 

[Byron]

Once things are established, the plants will begin to settle and fill in.  Just keep an eye on what does well and what if anything doesn't, and stay with what works.  My suggestion however would be to replace the existing tube with a Life-Glo, or a ZooMed UltraSun which is much the same.  Alternatively, if you feel like getting two tubes, that is another option.  And you will likely need a basic complete liquid fertilizer; I use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, another is Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti.  You use very little of either, about half a teaspoon once a week for your tank.
 
Byron.

 

[kuzyaburst]

Once things are established, the plants will begin to settle and fill in.  Just keep an eye on what does well and what if anything doesn't, and stay with what works.  My suggestion however would be to replace the existing tube with a Life-Glo, or a ZooMed UltraSun which is much the same.  Alternatively, if you feel like getting two tubes, that is another option.  And you will likely need a basic complete liquid fertilizer; I use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, another is Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti.  You use very little of either, about half a teaspoon once a week for your tank.
 
Byron.

Yeah I already built my alternative dual light fixture (just waiting for the 2 lights to ship). And for liquid fertilizer I use Seachem Flourish Excel, Comphrehensive Supplement, and i'm going to grab myself some Seachem Iron and Potassium. Also in the front I have 2 plants called Rotala Indicas, idk if it's just me but for some reason I keep thinking they look very similar to rotundifolias. Do you know what they are? because I feel like the store confused the 2, or it may just be me.

 

[Byron]

I don't know those plants well enough to be able to say, from the photo anyway.  Be careful on the fertilizers; you don't have a lot of plants, and excess nutrients will only give you algae issues, esp in this low lighting (until the dual tubes are in).  Excel I can't recommend, it is a chemical I would never add to my tanks.  The iron and potassium I have used, though with minimal benefit, trying to solve an issue.  What is your GH...this is the prime source of the "hard" minerals.  B.

 

[kuzyaburst]

I don't know those plants well enough to be able to say, from the photo anyway.  Be careful on the fertilizers; you don't have a lot of plants, and excess nutrients will only give you algae issues, esp in this low lighting (until the dual tubes are in).  Excel I can't recommend, it is a chemical I would never add to my tanks.  The iron and potassium I have used, though with minimal benefit, trying to solve an issue.  What is your GH...this is the prime source of the "hard" minerals.  B.

it is about 180 I don't have an insanely accurate test kit for GH and KH

 

[Byron]

Good, the GH should not be an issue then.  At 180ppm (= 10 dGH) we are in moderately hard water, so there will be sufficient "hard" minerals from regular weekly water changes to provide what the plants require.  The Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is all I would add, once a week after the water change.
 
Byron.

 

[kuzyaburst]

Good, the GH should not be an issue then.  At 180ppm (= 10 dGH) we are in moderately hard water, so there will be sufficient "hard" minerals from regular weekly water changes to provide what the plants require.  The Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is all I would add, once a week after the water change.
 
Byron.

Most of my plants are making so far, I made a little fixture combining the old one. I added the old 17 watt bulb plus another 15 watt bulb to make a dual light fixture. It's working nicely so far, and the thing you said about the Cabomba... mine is striving! It's probably growing better than any other plant in the tank currently. My Wisterias and swords are melting though, and I don't even know what is going on with my Rotalas and Banana plants they're darkening. The Rotalas have alot of dead leaves and the banana plants have very very dark stems or roots? (whatever they're called) I really hope these plants make it, I've been looking at other fixtures since i'm not going to use this DIY one forever. I saw the T5 Odysseas, I've seen lots of reviews saying it's a good light for a good price. Then I saw a review saying it broke on him 4 months after setup, that scared me a little bit. Do you know if the Odysseas is good or not? I was also interested in the Finnex Planted Fugeray,  I'm trying to find a good fixture that will last a while and is good for plants. You have helped out a lot by the way thank you.

 

[Byron]

Banana plants are not the hardiest of aquarium plants, and often die within a year according to Kasselmann, and she is a professional botanist.  As for the swords, remember that when transplanted they will almost always adjust by losing the existing outer leaves (which will turn yellow then brown and die) and growing new leaves from the centre of the crown.  A photo would help perhaps.
 
It is the long-term response of plants that is important; many will appear thriving now only to waste away within a few months, others the opposite.
 
Byron.