Lighting Confusion

deejeff442

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hello new to this forum.i am going to upsize my tank of 90 gallons live rock fish tank to 150 gallon reef tank.my 90 gallon has been running for 8 or 9 yeard now i only have live rock and crushed coral no filter system at all there are some fish that are 6 or 7 years old in there my purple tang is about 6 inches .i read about everyone using protien skimmers ,uv sterilizers,carbom filters etc. i did buy a large wet/dry set up for the 150 and a uv sterilizer and skimmer.figured since everyone uses the there must be a reason.
my question is i want to put together a bad ass reef tank with little or no problems.is this eneough filter equiptment?
also i hear all kinds of opinions about reef lighting for this tank it is 22 inches deep.
i hear 3 250 watt halide ,3 400 wat halide.etc. any help with lighting would be appreciated .
thanks jeff
 
Welcome to the forums!

With regards to the skimmer. They do help a great deal in keeping the water quality a lot higher and there really are no valid reasons not to run one (especially when compared to the benefits it gives). That being said though it is possible to have a healthy marine system without one.

The UV is a bit more debatable and depending on who you ask you will get different answers on if it is worthwhile or not. Personally I have a UV unit that I keep to hand but only use it if I need to (ie on a quarantine tank or if I have an outbreak of Ich or similar). Other people have them on their systems and run them 24/7. There are pro's and cons to both methods but both can be equally effective.

Personally for a large reef setup I would have a skimmer and some form of chemical filtration (for removing nitrates/phosphates). This could be done in a sump or just in an external canister filter. I dont have a lot of experience with wet/dry filters (they are very rarely seen in the UK, at least where I live). but I cant see it doing any harm. Between the LR and skimmer this should be all the filtration you need (as long as you have enough LR and water flow). There is a lot more you could add to this which would improve the water quality and make maintenance easier but it depends on your budget really.

In terms of lighting I cant help I'm afraid as I really don't know enough about it ( know what I need for my tanks but thats about as far as my knowledge of lighting goes :( ). It depends on what kind of corals you plan on keeping, also how long is the tank?
 
You could use the 90g tank for the sump and use the rock in it as the filter. Just get a double tier stand made and put the 90g underneath and the new tank on top. Have a couple of holes drilled into the new tank and fit some PVC pipe in place. The water will drain from the top tank into the bottom one and you use a pump to return the water to the main tank.
The bottom tank can be used to house the protein skimmer and any chemical filter media you want. It would act in a similar way to a trickle filter. You could even put a partition into the 90g and fill the section with bioballs and filter sponges to act as a prefilter for the rock. It’s probably not really necessary tho especially if you have had the tank running with a live rock filter for a while.
The 90g would also increase the overall volume of water in the system and help make things more stabile.

The amount of lighting required is determined by the exact size of the tank. Tall tanks do best with metal halide, while shallow tanks (less than 18inches tall) can be run with fluoros, especially high output T5s.
Generally you have 1 metal halide light for every 2ft square or tank surface.
Eg 1: in a 4x2x2ft tank you would have 2 metal halide lights.
Eg 2: in a 6x2x2ft tank you would have 3 metal halide lights.

250 watt halides would be heaps on a 22inch high tank. 150watt halides would probably be fine too but it depends on the exact corals you want to keep. Acroporas and clams like lots of light so 250w units would be better for them. Soft corals would be fine under 150watt globes.
Regardless of the light unit you choose, get globes with a temperature or Kelvin (K) rating of about 10,000K. You can use globes with a lower rating but many can make the water look yellow. Globes with a really high Kelvin rating (20,000K) make the water look blue.

Don’t bother with a UV unit unless you have lots of money. Stress and poor water quality cause most disease outbreaks. Control those and the fish very rarely get sick. UV units will also kill plankton in the water and this can make some corals more difficult to keep.
 
thanks for the replies.collin i have a large wet/dry under the tank already the set up was running a few years ago as a f/o tank.the tank is set up for the wet/dry with built in over flows(which i dont like too much because they take up alot of fish space),can i remove the overflows and set up something with the holes on the bottom ?maybe increase the tank size. so the 90 won,t be used.i already have a uv but from what people tell me its really usefull for disease outbreaks sound right?i don't plan on clams just easier kept corals like soft/hard .i was really trying to stay away from metal halide lighting.i seen a t5 monster set up with ithink 8 bulbs total 700 or 800 watts i forget .would this unit work? the tank is 72 by 18 by 22 deep.or do i have to get 3 halides.when you say chemical filtration do you mean `carbon? and do i run it all the time?
thanks again
 
You can use carbon but there is some debate on its long term effectiveness in salt water (I have seen it said that it needs to be replaced at least every 2 weeks). Not sure how true this is but sure someone on here knows the facts of it.

Generally most people tend to not use carbon and use nitrate and phosphate removal media (such as phosban and nitrate sponges). These still need to be replaced regularly but not as often as you need to replace carbon. They are also more effective (for removing phosphate and nitrate).
 
how are nitrate and phosphate removers work i mean are they used on a hang on filter ?i have a light system for my 90 gallon i thought didnt work anymore it was around 700 dollars 10 years ago.i dug it out of the attic this morning and the metal halides light up and it has two tube lights i got one to light but the othr won't ,now i cant get either to light.i shook the ballast unit and something is shakin around in it plus i think one bulb is shot.the halides are 175 watt each and i know i need new bulbs and maybe an electrition can fix the tube lights.if i can get the unit working will this be eneough light?
 
The overflow pipes can be put in the side of the tank, near the top. The pipes sticking out the back or side and running down the outside. Otherwise just have the holes drilled in the bottom of the tank and the pipes glued in place. The drain pipe would go up to the surface of the water the water would simply drain over the edge of the pipe and down into the sump.

UV units help to limit the disease organisms in the tank. However, they don’t stop the fish getting sick. Good water quality and regular tank maintenance will prevent most diseases. Quarantining all new fish for a few weeks (2-4weeks) will help prevent disease outbreaks in the main tank.

You can run the T5 unit with all the globes but it might be cheaper to run 3 halides. 3x250w halides use 750watts, or 3 x 150w halides use 450watts. This is a bit less power than the T5s would use (700-800w). When it comes time to replace all the globes, (once a year) it might be cheaper to buy 3 halide globes rather than 8 T5 globes.
New halide units are much better than those of 10 years ago. They have electronic ballasts and work much more efficiently.
For a tank 72x18x22inches you would have 3 halides if possible. If you only had two units then the ends of the tank won’t get that much light.
If the T5 unit with 8 globes fits on top of your tank, it would probably be fine as well.
Do some research into how much it is going to cost to run the lights and replace the globes.
A sparky/ electrician should be able to fix your halides and if you have 175watt units they will be fine, they will probably need new globes. Get another unit to distribute the light more evenly across the tank.

Chemical filtration includes carbon, nitrate & phosphate removers. Carbon isn’t necessary unless you have lots of soft corals in a new tank. Then it helps to remove the chemicals they release. Nitrate & Phosphate removers are granules that absorb nitrate & phosphate. All three products sit in a filter where the tank water continuously passes over/ through them.
They all need replacing on a regular basis. Normal carbon should be replaced about once a month. Activated carbon can be replaced every 2 months. Ammonia & Phosphate removers need to be replaced when they are full. You have to monitor the nitrate & phosphate levels and replace the media when these go up.
Carbon will absorb some trace elements from the water but if you do regular water changes, or add supplements, this shouldn’t be a problem to the corals.
You can get de-nitrators, these are filter units that develop colonies of anaerobic bacteria that eats the nitrate and removes it from the water. Nitrates will also be consumed by bacteria living in live rock. If you use live rock in the tank it will often break down the ammonia, nitrite & nitrate without the need for a trickle or power filter.
A sump with 4-6inches of sand in, can also be used to break down nitrates. It is known as a deep sand bed and over time the sand becomes anaerobic (lacking oxygen) and starts to break down nitrates.
If you have a de-nitrating filter you will still have to monitor the phosphates.
 
thanks for all the help stating to make sense.how do you feel about the wet/dry i have?wondering on the light system i have it came with 175 watt bulbs can i put 250 watt in or is it just rated for the 175.the unit is sealed and has a fan .i was looking for new globes online fish stores a 175 watt with 10000kelvin is 70 dollars i checked out ebay stores and found the same watt and kelvin for 9.99 are these the same bulbs and are they good for my use.i figured the fish stores has an insane markup.
 
well i looked around and figured i would just buy a light unit seeing mine is old and will probably burn the house down.
i found on an ebay store two kits which one you think will work
buy two 36" at $190 each
1 250 watt mh 15000k
2 96 watt actinic 460 bulbs
8 lunar leds
total 884 wats
or 1 48" at $300
2 250 watt mh 15000k
4 65 watt actinic bulbe
12 lunar led
total 760 watts
what do you think?
 
I don’t know what sort of wet/dry filter you have. How big is it?

Generally if the light unit came with 175watt globes then stay with 175watt globes.

Different quality globes will cost different amounts. The expensive ones from your LFS might be a better quality but without comparing the two different globes to each other it is hard to say. Perhaps buy one of each and run them next to each other. Then choose the globe that looks the best.
We had a couple of different 150w halide globes. Both were 10,000K but different brands. The cheaper brand looked ok but when you compared it to the more expensive brand, it looked crap. The globe that produced the nicer light cost about twice the price of the cheaper one.

As for the two light units from ebay, they both have 15,000K globes and actinics. That is too much blue light as far as I’m concerned. You might like it but personally I don’t bother going above 10,000K because everything above that tends to have a blue sheen to it. When you get up to 20,000K the light is blue and dull. Actinics are about 20,000K.
The units are also going to limit you to only two metal halides over the tank. This will leave part of the tank darker than the rest of it.
All you really need is 3 x 150watt or 3 x 250watt halides with 10,000K globes. If you want a night light on the tank then buy a 4ft fluorescent actinic globe and have it in a standard fluoro reflector.
 
i am not too interested in night vision.the reason i keep asking you the same quesion different ways is because i cannot find a light system with 3 mh units.i can find single units but would have no idea how to install i have a full cover on the tank .how would i cool the lights if they are just mounted in a row?do i just turn on the 3 250 watt lights in the morning and leave them on till night?i used to run my tube light all day then run my mh for 6 hours in the evening back when i used it.i am just trying to find a set up that will fit under the hood .i dont like the blue either so i will look at the 10000k as for the wet/dry it measures 12 by 35 by 18 so it is a pretty big set up.
 
Light units that house 3 metal halides are available but expensive. Dupla does them and so do a few other companies. Most people just buy individual units and hang them above the tank. Find a decent wooden beam in the roof and attach a cable/ hook to it. Then hang the lights from that.
If you have a hood on the tank you can remove the top of the hood so it is more of a wooden frame surrounding the top of the tank. Then the light will get in but the heat can come out.
Halides can be on all day but the corals must be use to that amount of light otherwise they can stress out and bleach. Most people have the halides on for about 6-8 hours in the afternoon/ evening. That way they can see the fish when they get home from work.
Because halides give more intense light than fluoros, they don’t need to be on for as long.
Halides produce too much heat to be fitted into or under most hoods. And if they are close to the top of the tank they will warm the water up very quickly. If you have a tall hood, one that is 12inches high, you could try to fit the lights in it but you would need some fans to blow or suck the hot air out of the hood.

The trickle filter should be big enough for the tank. If you keep it alive during the move to the new tank, it can get connected straight up and you will have a fully cycled filter on the new tank.
 
thanks for all the help,if you have the time could you go to ebay and look up item
#170259185375
it is a 3 mh all single units with a fan set up comes with 15000k but 10000k is available also.3 250 watt bulbs
looks like something i can use.
 
The info on the ebay link sounds good but the picture is a bit hard to work out. I'm not sure if they are selling 3 separate lights or a single housing with 3 lights in it. The light units are going to be seperate from the ballast and they have plugs going from the lights to the ballast. Then another plug from the ballast to the powerpoint. But the housing is the confusing part. Maybe contact them and see if the unit comes as a single fixture for the globes in it, or if they have a picture of the finished unit.
And get 10,000K globes instead of the 15. If they want to charge you more for the 10K then find out how much it is without globes and perhaps buy some globes from another place.
 
yea i was thinking the same thing as you with the pic.i will send them an email.
 

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