Lfs Confusing Me About Salinity

[jgray152]

So for lake Malawi cichlids, do they come from a salty evironment or a freshwater environment?

The LFS tells me to add salts, never knows exactly how much though.

I found a webpage that says Lake Mawali is freshwater but than it says that its high in Sodium (21.0mg/l) so this confuses me more. This is the page
[URL="http/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquai...rift_lakes.html"]http/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquai...rift_lakes.html[/URL]

So whats the real deal? I have been buying "african salt" from the LFS and adding 1tbl spoon for every 5 gallons like the directions say. Should I keep doing this?

 

[darrel69]

Lake Malawi's water is hard with a high ph. 'Hard' water means that its got lots of dissolved minerlas in it. Like Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium ect ...

The 'Cichlid Salt' you've been buying contains all these minerals, making your water hard, which is good for your fish.

Its not actually 'salt' like table salt, but minerals. Some 'Cichlid Salts' raise the gh hardness, and some raise gh hardness and kh hardness which contributes to a stable ph.

Which 'Cichlid Salt' are you using ?

 

[darrel69]

Although, you can use salt like marine salt, epsom salt ect, to harden your water also. If your 'Cichlid Salt' is getting a little expensive for you, (which it very much can be!!), have a look HERE , its a homemade 'Cichlid Salt' thats alot cheaper and lasts longer.

 

[jgray152]

The salt im using is called "African Rift Lake Cichlid Salt". Its a dry formula and not a liquid formula. Looks like salt.

Its actually really cheap for now. Only because I change my water once a month ( I know, no bashing). I will have to try something else though when I get my 180 Gallon.

 

[darrel69]

ok, it is salt .... but like 'mineral salt' is what i was trying to say. I use African Cichlid Conditioner which i dose weekly, but only adds minerals to raise my gh. Using it, my gh is always between 160-180. Its not that expensive, but i have been tempted to try the homemade buffer. But ive heard mixed reviews, it put me off a little.

However, im sure it wouldn't be on a site like cichlidforum if it was dangerous in any way, and i hear many people use it with success. Even members on here recomend it... its just not on my priority list at the moment, im ok with what i have for the time being.

 

[dthoffsett]

Actually Lake Malawi's water is fairly soft with a high sodium content. It is much easier in the home hobby to keep your water hard though in order to avoid PH swings (a stable high PH is difficult to acheive with soft water). Most Malawi's you get are tank bred, and therefore are quite comfortable with hard water as well as a "lack" of salt. So, it is entirely up to you whether or not you add the buffer (your salt mixture). I don't add anything to my tank (I do use aragonite as the substrate to buffer the PH) and all of my fish show beautful colors and breed like there's no tomorrow. So it is very possible to keep these guys without exactly replicating the Lake.

 

[darrel69]

dthoffsett, i know you have alot more experience than me, and i dont want to argue with you lol, but Lake Malawi's water is soft ?!?!? im confused.....

 

[Ferris]

It's not exactly soft - it's just not as hard as everyone expects. The dH reading ranges from 6-12 in different areas of the lake - remember it is the 9th largest lake in the world. 6dH is fairly soft whereas 12dH is pretty hard.

 

[jgray152]

I guess it has a lot of rivers or streams running into the lake so maybe in those areas the water is softer and the water else where is harder?

 

[WaterBender1995]

I suggest testing your tap water to begin with, you might have optimal water values and dont have to bother with all the additive gunk.

 

[jgray152]

My water is soft to begin with and is neutral in PH. I have well water as well so it has no chlorine or flouride or any other junk.

I don't add any "gunk" to the aquarum except for the salt. I have crushed coral to help keep it more natural without adding unnatural products.

 

[dthoffsett]

It's not exactly soft - it's just not as hard as everyone expects. The dH reading ranges from 6-12 in different areas of the lake - remember it is the 9th largest lake in the world. 6dH is fairly soft whereas 12dH is pretty hard.

Actually Ferris, through a little research I discovered it gets even softer than that, this is from another thread I posted on.

QUOTE (Colin_T @ Feb 24 2008, 12:56 AM) a lot of people do get away with doing big water changes and adding dechlorinator after the tap water has been added. I used to do it for years and most petshops do the same thing. But every so often someone loses a tank full of fish straight after doing a water change. The water corp sometimes increases the chlorine levels and you change a little bit more water than normal, and bang dead fish everywhere.
The safest thing to do is dechlorinate the water before it goes into the tank. Then you don't have to think, well was it the water change that did the damage. You know it was free of chlorine so that removes a potential factor.

The hardness you state for Lake Malawi seems a bit low. 4-6dH is less than 120ppm. The Amazon has water that soft. I thought Lake Malawi was around 300ppm (about 16dH).

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the dechlorinator , however I'm positive about the hardness. Here are 5 additional websites that all give the same values as cichlid-forum.com.
[URL="http/"http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Malawi""]http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Malawi[/URL]
[URL="http/"http/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/rift_lakes.html""]http/www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquai...rift_lakes.html[/URL]
[URL="http/"http/www.malawimayhem.com/articles_setup_01.shtml""]http/www.malawimayhem.com/articles_setup_01.shtml[/URL]
[URL="http/"http/www.markstropicalfish.com/freshwater_cichlids1.html""]http/www.markstropicalfish.com/freshwater_cichlids1.html[/URL]
[URL="http/"http/www.answers.com/topic/lake-malawi?cat=travel""]http/www.answers.com/topic/lake-malawi?cat=travel[/URL]

[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/content-page/232069/pagination/page/20/"]http/www.fishforums.net/content-page/232...nation/page/20/[/URL]

 

[jgray152]

So when we are looking for fish on the cichlidforum profiles should we pay attention to the "water hardness" when it says hard, very hard or is this just an assumption?

Also, what is the difference between KH and GH?

 

[darrel69]

It's not exactly soft - it's just not as hard as everyone expects. The dH reading ranges from 6-12 in different areas of the lake - remember it is the 9th largest lake in the world. 6dH is fairly soft whereas 12dH is pretty hard.

So if it ranges from 6dH-12dH, thats 120ppm-240ppm right ?? and having a ppm of 160-180 which is what i have, thats about average, is that right ??

Also, is it dead important to have a stable gh ? having 160ppm-180ppm isn't too much of a swing is it ?

thanks.

So when we are looking for fish on the cichlidforum profiles should we pay attention to the "water hardness" when it says hard, very hard or is this just an assumption?

Also, what is the difference between KH and GH?

As long as you dont put a hard water fish in soft water, and vice versa, i dont think its dead important wether its hard or very hard, just aslong as its hard. I think a stable pH is more important.

gh is all round general hardness, a measurement of all minerals in your water.

kh is carbonate hardness which buffers your water. The higher the kh, the more stable your pH will be.

 

[Ferris]

Actually Ferris, through a little research I discovered it gets even softer than that, this is from another thread I posted on.

Yeah i noticed that thread - the problem is i could post another 5 sites that give you completely different information. Bar going there (which i'd love to do some day) and taking some readings it's difficult to be certain but i put a great deal more faith in what i've read from the likes of Axelrod and Konings than information on any website. (including cichlidforum which is usually reliable but certainly not infallible)