Let's Talk Quarantine...

[magpie]

OK, in the past I haven't quarantined new fish because I trust my LFS and they quarantine their new fish before putting them up for sale. However I have had a bout of ich (likely from fish from another LFS) and a possible gill fluke infestation vs. toxins from added driftwood/other items.

I had a large number of fish die from the last issue, so I'll need to be getting a bunch of new fish over the next few months. I think I want to do a quarantine tank now since I'm so tired of having a sick tank.

I've done a bunch of reading, but still have some questions. I know I can probably find a used 10 gallon tank on craigslist. I know I'll need a small heater as well. But when talking about filters/biological media that's where my questions pop up.

People talk about using small filters on their main tanks to keep the bacteria alive and for instant cycling in the QT. I've read about people doing HOBs but I don't want a big bulky thing on/in my current tank. I like that my Eheim external filter is quiet and it works well.

I've read about sponge filters but am a bit confused as to exactly what people are doing. Do people use an entire new second filter with a sponge, or just use the sponge itself?
If they use the full filter is it internal and how much room does it take up?
Does anyone have specific brand recommendations if so?

Can I just use a sponge covering the intake of my Eheim like one of these: http/www.petsmart.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=sponge%20filter&origkw=sponge+filter&sr=1
The idea being that it would then go in a small HOB or the like on the QT. Or is that not enough bacteria?

Or should I just use the sponge that is in the Eheim and replace it? OR should I use some of my ceramic media and put it in an HOB and then get new ceramic media for the Eheim?


Lastly, I've read very different recommendations re: time to quarantine - from 2 to 6 weeks. What are your recommendations?

Thanks for your help, and for reading my many questions.

 

[Cazgar]

Sponge filters are usually run with an air pump, I used one in my fry tank, they do need cleaning regularly as mine tended to gunk up easily
For a quarantine tank any cycled filter will do the job.
I tried a small Hob but found it noisy, but it was only a cheap one.
Quarantine time is usually about a month, most of us would love to have a quarantine tank, but in reality it's not usually possible.
Tbh I used to try quarantining, but found the trip from the Lfs, then transferring into a quarantine tank, then a few weeks later, transferring the fish again into the man tank was stressful for the fish.
Best to find a really good Lfs, visit it plenty of times & observe the fish & the conditions they're kept in.
Touch wood I've had no problems introducing new fish from a trusted Lfs

 

[steelhealr]

Hi. Just because YOUR lfs quarantines doesn't mean they are disease free. They are stressed. They were recently shipped. Most are in a massive pool of water used by all the fish.

There are many theories about ich. Some feel that even when unaffected, there may be a dormancy issue.

Quarantining should be adequate after two weeks. The tank needs only the most simple equipment. Most fish/tanks shouldn't run into an ammonia problem unless the quarantine tank is overfed or the fish is large.

I recently set up my own quarantine tank. It contained the cheapest heater I could find (make sure it is tested first so you don't cook your fish); an under $10 hang-on-the-side filter (a box filter would be fine two); a couple of plastic plants. HOWEVER, I have a WELL established 46G aquarium with a sponge and ceramics. It's easy for me to put the ceramics in the tank to help with biofiltration and the place new ceramics in my old. Always keep 'extra' if you can.

You can put together a quarantine tank for under $50. SH

ADD: Yes. Quarantining is a PITA. HOWEVER, if you value your main tank and it's inhabitants, you will quarantine. The first time you wipe out your tank and kill your 4 year old favorite fish, and/or, destroy your tank, you'll regret it. Once you have to add antibiotics or ich meds to your main tank, it just changes the dynamic.

Can you get away with it? Sure. You can spin the revolver.....and hope.

SH

 

[magpie]

Sponge filters are usually run with an air pump, I used one in my fry tank, they do need cleaning regularly as mine tended to gunk up easily
For a quarantine tank any cycled filter will do the job.
I tried a small Hob but found it noisy, but it was only a cheap one.
Quarantine time is usually about a month, most of us would love to have a quarantine tank, but in reality it's not usually possible.
Tbh I used to try quarantining, but found the trip from the Lfs, then transferring into a quarantine tank, then a few weeks later, transferring the fish again into the man tank was stressful for the fish.
Best to find a really good Lfs, visit it plenty of times & observe the fish & the conditions they're kept in.
Touch wood I've had no problems introducing new fish from a trusted Lfs

Thanks for the info - I'm wondering if I actually need to run the sponge filter in my large tank or if I can just put the sponge somewhere for long enough.

I've wondered about the stress of moving them around that much, especially since Q tanks are typically small, with minimal decorations.

Hi. Just because YOUR lfs quarantines doesn't mean they are disease free. They are stressed. They were recently shipped. Most are in a massive pool of water used by all the fish.

There are many theories about ich. Some feel that even when unaffected, there may be a dormancy issue.

Quarantining should be adequate after two weeks. The tank needs only the most simple equipment. Most fish/tanks shouldn't run into an ammonia problem unless the quarantine tank is overfed or the fish is large.

I recently set up my own quarantine tank. It contained the cheapest heater I could find (make sure it is tested first so you don't cook your fish); an under $10 hang-on-the-side filter (a box filter would be fine two); a couple of plastic plants. HOWEVER, I have a WELL established 46G aquarium with a sponge and ceramics. It's easy for me to put the ceramics in the tank to help with biofiltration and the place new ceramics in my old. Always keep 'extra' if you can.

You can put together a quarantine tank for under $50. SH

ADD: Yes. Quarantining is a PITA. HOWEVER, if you value your main tank and it's inhabitants, you will quarantine. The first time you wipe out your tank and kill your 4 year old favorite fish, and/or, destroy your tank, you'll regret it. Once you have to add antibiotics or ich meds to your main tank, it just changes the dynamic.

Can you get away with it? Sure. You can spin the revolver.....and hope.

SH

Again, thanks for the input. I do have enough ceramics to use from my existing canister, so maybe that's all that I need, then....

My LFS has an offsite holding area where they keep new fish, raise baby fish, and pull any sick fish to medicate/heal. You never see ich in their tanks, and you never see dead fish. Their water is not shared through their tanks, each is separate. In the past I've gotten fish from them and from this other FS closer and still good, but not to the high level of the first. You will on occasion see ich or a dead fish in their tanks, but rare.

Here's from my LFS' website. I know it doesn't mean that it's a bombproof situation, hence my quarantining question. But I do have close to an ideal situation in regards to a LFS.

There are a lot of things that make The Wet Spot a unique store. One major thing that sets us apart from other stores is that we don’t transship fish. When fish are shipped from around the world they generally arrive in pretty bad health – malnourished, stressed and prone to sickness. That’s why we don’t bring them directly into our store. We have a separate holding facility where they are kept until they have recovered from the stress of being shipped and are healthy. Another thing we do differently is that all of our tanks are individually filtered, NOT run off of one central filtration system. This lets us control the health of each tank and limits the spread of disease.

Thanks again!

 

[balajake]

you could buy a UV steriliser. i think they kill all that crap but im not sure

 

[CezzaXV]

I heard that to properly make sure a fish is disease free, you have to quarantine it for 92 days, as the two weeks is nowhere near long enough to ensure that it is truly disease free and not just not having any visible diseases. I can set up a Q tank in an emergency, but I don't have the space to be running a Q tank for that amount of time. If I had that space, I'd be using it for having a bigger main tank lol.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Ah- one of my favorite subjects.

IMO the minimum time for Qing tank raised fish is 30 consecutive days of the Q tank being death and disease free. For wild caught fish, especially those recently imported, up that to 60 days and some folks will do 90. Many things take some time to manifest and I support the better safe than sorry crowd.

Cycling the tank is a tossup. I prefer to keep a cycled tank I can use for this purpose. Often it will hold a few fish to keep the cycle and they are removed when its time for Q. If I don't park a few fish, then I will dose ammonia every few days to hold the cycle. (I am talking about a dosing equivalent of 2 ppm max.). It is also possible to work with an uncycled Q tank. But this necessitates water changes about every other day which can be more work than one wishes to take on especially for a 2 month Q period.

Why don't I like to swipe media from other tanks to set up a Q tank as needed? Simple- I hate to cause the potential cycling minispike removing bacteria from a balanced established tank can often cause. I much prefer to use a bit of it to seed a Q tank which can then be fully cycled via fishless cycling. Of course there is also the possibility of using some bottled bacteria to jump start a cycle. Just be sure to use one of these that do actually work.

The decision to use a cycled or uncycled Q tank for me is a function of what is coming in, from where, how many and what I think the biggest risks are. The reason for this is that many antibiotics, and some of the other meds, one may have to use can kill of the bacteria. When I feel there is a high likelihood that I will have to be using such meds, I am more inclined to go with an uncycled Q tank.

The nice think about this hobby is there are usually multiple ways to achieve any desired result. There is rarely only one way or a clearly best way. So how I do Q may not be how somebody else does it. The important thing is to do it whichever way works for you.

 

[CezzaXV]

Why don't I like to swipe media from other tanks to set up a Q tank as needed? Simple- I hate to cause the potential cycling minispike removing bacteria from a balanced established tank can often cause. I much prefer to use a bit of it to seed a Q tank which can then be fully cycled via fishless cycling. Of course there is also the possibility of using some bottled bacteria to jump start a cycle. Just be sure to use one of these that do actually work.

Not arguing with how you do it, each to their own and all that, but how is using media to seed and cycle a filter any different than just borrowing a bit of media when it's actually needed? Say you had 16 fish in a tank and two fell ill so you quarantined them, it makes sense that if you removed 1/8 (as you're removing 1/8 of the fish) of the media then both tanks are still cycled for the amount of fish that are in them. If it got to the point where there were enough sick fish that you'd need to remove a significant amount of media, it'd probably be worth dosing the main tank.

 

[FishFanatic04]

I'm having a similar problem as you did. My two big tanks were stocked in the last 3 weeks and all of a sudden I have ich in one, flashing in the other. My fish are sick EVERYWHERE and I can't even cry cause I might lose it and take all the stuff back and quit.

I have a quarantine set up that came at a kit for about $30-$34 at petsmart, and I added a heater. It came with a filter, but I added a small sponge filter in case I use it for fry later. To keep it cycled, I have one of my platys in there. It's a little lonely, but it's working. No I don't have to hang anythign extra in my big tank, or worry about it at all.

It's just as easy to add media form my big filter, But it isn't hurting to have a platy or two in there. They are hardy and handle to move better if I have to put them in the bigger tank. I will be quarantining all fish form now on. My apistogrammas were $15 each and I'm afraid I'm going to start losing them now, because I bought them all and tossed them right in {acclimatized}

 

[snazy]

If you are setting up a completely new tank then what's the point of putting them in QT? All of them need to be quarantined. Unless you have a tank per fish to avoid cross contamination between new fish, then it don't matter, treat the whole tank if you ain't lucky.
It also depends on the size of tanks you keep. If you have a tank max 30G, then it's handy enough to treat with medication should something happen.

I would only worry to quarantine newly bought fish(although I just did quite the opposite the other day)

If fish that I had for ages got sick without anything being added to my tank, unless I really know what they are sick from, I would probably end up treating the whole tank just in case it is contagious. I mean to be honest how many fish diseases aren't contagious?

The problem is that not all diseases affect the fish at the same time and intensity, so the sickness may spread in the space of weeks or months. If you pull one to treat in your QT tank in the hope it hadn't yet affected other fish then you can never be sure your other fish are not diseased too. Although it's not ideal to run for medications every time you "imagine" there is a problem, especially not without investigating what it is, sometimes it is better to treat early than late as this can also save you a whole tank of fish.

Someone mentioned ich being dormant. I think it is not that it is dormant only, some fish(particularly guppies for example) develop immunity against ich. So you may have had ich parasite for ages in your tank. One day you bring from the LFS a new fish that looked perfectly healthy and it develops ich within a day or two from being added to your tank. You blame the shop for selling you sick fish but the problem may have been that ick was already in your tank.

That's my two cents.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

CezzaXV-

1- I use mostly sponges as my filter media- it is not a great idea to try and cut bits off of them.
2- How do you know exactly how much bacteria you are moving, Even using ceramic media you can not assume that the bacteria must be evenly distributed. While a lot of it is in one's filter(S), there is also a decent amount on the other hard surfaces of a tank, especially those exposed to a steady flow.

Remember, most of the time you know in advance you will be getting new fish, so one usually has enough time to do a quick fishless cycle by using a bit of gravel etc. and rinsing out ones media in the new tank for seeding.

But like you said, do whatever works best for you. That is what works best for me.

 

[Ruskull]

I bought a Marineland 10 gallon tank that included an LED light hood, 50 watt heater, and a bio-wheel filter for $45 at PetSmart. I instantly cycled it with media from another, larger tank I had set up. No biggie really, especially since it's for only a single fish usually. Either way you should be doing some water changes on the tank to keep the water as clean as possible. I just broke it down tonight, I was just using it to soak some new wood & plants I bought.

 

[magpie]

Interesting food for thought here. I still do wonder sometimes whether the stress of moving the fish multiple times in a short period of time is more damaging than not if you are getting fish from a reputable place...

I will still likely quarantine my newcomers in the next few months because I don't want to chance anything again. Though in the past all of the fish I've received from that one reputable LFS have settled in exceptionally quickly, even wild fish. I know that doesn't mean they're automatically healthy though, but it does that they're not overly stressed.


Does anyone know if you can get gill flukes from feeding live brine shrimp?