halupo
New Member
they will have a filter and live plants...
Launch And Forget (well, Not Really)
- Thread starter halupo
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Spishkey
Spishkeys Turtle Rescue
the majority of aquariums have a filter and plants but water changes still need to be performed though
by all means try it, fish can go months without water changes, just dont expect them to be happy healthy or live out their full lives
you could go for the walstad method but you would need at least 75% of the tank planted, and not so many fish
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
i think we're overreacting a bit here, a weekly water change is recommendied because of the stock levels and standard filtration that we apply to a 'normal' fishtank.
providing it is appropriately stocked and filtered it would be fine to drop water changes to say once a month but make sure it's a good water change with thorough maintenance such as gravel cleaning on the day. plant heavily with things like cabomba and elodea dense which are easy to grow and will soak up any excess nutrients. obviously set the filter up with mature media from your tank so they don't have to worry over cycling.
stock to 1" of hardy fish per 2 gallons and make sure your filter provides at least 7x tank turnover if not 10x and you'll be fine.
I'd actually avoid guppies, if you do end up with a female in there it'll quickly become overstocked and can you guarantee that they won't just go out and get one to have a go at breeding one day?
i would go for something like 5 harlequin rasboras and 5 of some other small tetra type species, then there's a bit of variety and they'll be hardier than guppies anyway.
just steer clear of anything heavy waste producing and any bottom feeders as the gravel wouldn't be vacc'd often enough to keep it clean.
providing it is appropriately stocked and filtered it would be fine to drop water changes to say once a month but make sure it's a good water change with thorough maintenance such as gravel cleaning on the day. plant heavily with things like cabomba and elodea dense which are easy to grow and will soak up any excess nutrients. obviously set the filter up with mature media from your tank so they don't have to worry over cycling.
stock to 1" of hardy fish per 2 gallons and make sure your filter provides at least 7x tank turnover if not 10x and you'll be fine.
I'd actually avoid guppies, if you do end up with a female in there it'll quickly become overstocked and can you guarantee that they won't just go out and get one to have a go at breeding one day?
i would go for something like 5 harlequin rasboras and 5 of some other small tetra type species, then there's a bit of variety and they'll be hardier than guppies anyway.
just steer clear of anything heavy waste producing and any bottom feeders as the gravel wouldn't be vacc'd often enough to keep it clean.
Syphoniera
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If I may add to the above comments regarding the Walstad/low-maintenance methods, here are some more (I think previously posted, but, anyway, handy) from various sites:
http
/aquariumsblog.info/238-diana-walsta...o-planted-tanks
... The end result is a tank that looks very different from any Dutch or Nature style aquarium, but that requires almost no maintenance, while maintaining a lush planted look. The types of plants available to someone starting an "el Natural" fish tank are somewhat limited, since lots of plants require high light and fertilization, but algae is rarely a problem. Unlike Dutch and Nature style aquariums, there is no set school for plant placement or composition of hardscape. This approach is also not designed for someone who likes to rescape their tank every few months, as moving plants around is difficult to do without disturbing the potting soil underneath the gravel. The natural soil substrate is probably the most volatile part of an "el Natural" style fish tank, and there are lots of do's and don'ts explained in Diana's book. However, once you get it set up, an "el Natural" style tank can be perfect for someone who is tired of dosing, testing, and re-dosing every day or for someone who just doesn't have the time for a high-tech aquarium. ...
(Problems come when people are unaware of the basic tenets of the method and, in too-common example, use soil which is artificially fertilized or contains too much organic debris which breaks down producing ammonia.
In the example below, the person involved left fish in distress in that situation, which seems rather indicative...)
http/forum.nanfa.org/index.php?showtopic=2855
... Do you have any nitrate problems with these? I tried this setup once in a 50 gallon and I couldn't keep the nitrates down. My nitrate test kit showed colors no where near anything on the chart even after water changes and chemicals. After two months my fish ended up getting velvet and a bad case of scratching and labored breathing and all perished. If that wasn't bad, the cleanup was a nightmare - my room smelled like I was hip deep in creek muck for days.
I would like to try it again but I'm not sure what I did wrong the first time. ...
(My interjection: in later comment, the problem identified: )
... That was my first time ever seeing more than 50 ppm and it kinda scared me so I scurried out and bought some amquel.
I had an inch of soil in the back 3/4 of the tank covered with sand then gravel. I was kind of leaning towards something in the soil. It was some off brand soil I wasn't familiar with, with a lot of woody debris n such...it was the only thing I could find in the dead of winter.
Funny you mentioned that book cause that's where I got the idea. ...
(Another commenter: )
... I have had tropical freshwater and marine tanks. I got to the point where I could not put the time, money needed into the hobby so I went with a Walstad set up using only locally collected plants and fish. Only the tank/stand, lights, and filter are store bought. The collecting trips make for a great family outing and my kids have a ball. The tank has been up for almost a year and is the most successful aquarium I have ever had with very little work involved. I have not lost any fish so far and the plants are doing great. The only algae is a very light coating on the glass that I wipe away every week or two. There is almost no algae growing on the plants, wood, rocks. A while back the plants were not growing well and I started getting some algae growth so I went against all conventional wisdom and increased the food I put into the tank, Conditions in the tank actually quickly improved. I change about 25% of the water every 3 months or so. Mostly out of guilt. I probably don't need to. The main chores are feeding and watching. If you are looking for a very low maintenace aquarium, in my opinion this is a perfect set up. At the beginning it is hard to break old maintenance habits, but things will go much better if just left alone. ...
(And a different person: )
... I packed in non-fertilized soil, some gravel on that, lots of plants and two compact fluorescent lights in my 20L. I've had the tank for maybe 10 months or so and haven't done one water change and I don't use salt or chemicals at all (I replace evaporated water when needed). I have no ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates no matter how much food or fish I put in there. I am a believer for sure. ...
(Comment further down: )
... Keep in mind that if you like a pristine tank and enjoy the tinkering this may not be for you. The filter is used mainly to provide circulation and heavy mechanical filter media is not recommended. Only clean when things are clogging. Carbon use is not recommended. The plants use up ammonia so biological filtration such as bio wheels, etc. should not be used. The waste products provide the plant fertilizer and slower growth is prefered (no CO2 injecters, added ferts). The tank will be more like a natural lake setting so crystal clear water may not be the case. But, if you are looking for a tank you can set up, sit back and enjoy this really works great. This is letting nature take care of itself. ...
(And another comment in response to a question: )
... So, nobody is doing Amano tanks?
Nah, they're a pain in the butt. All that work and they really are only sustainable for a couple of months, tops. Lovely, but I like to spend my time watching the fish, not obsessing over the plants. ...)
(My comment - there are many inaccuracies repeated, as illustrated below: while daylight is highly desirable, supplimental light is also required in many cases, as the emergent plants recommended as one of several plant types [including also floating and fast-growing stem plants] require about a 14 hr. photo period year-round, although this does not necessarily mean continuous 14 hr. lighting, as a 'siesta' period of several hours (using a timer switch) is now progressively more often employed for various reasons.
[Conservation of electricity, reduction of algae, a lack of need during times of bright morning/afternoon light through a window, etc.]
Certainly, there are those who can rely entirely or predominately on daylight throughout much of the year, but the photo period shortens at certain seasons, and too many dull/cloudy days can set plants back badly.
The length of my explanations explains why I ignore most inaccuracies...)
http/www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/b...142118-4-1.aspx
... Basically Diane Walstad's method of El Natural planting calls for pretty much nothing artificial. The substrate consists of soil and a thin layer of sand and even leaves. The lighting comes entirely from the sun. Water movement is provided by a single low powered powerhead (more than one in larger tanks). The water movement aids in the filtration which is provided entirely by the bacteria in the soil and plants. Ferts are provided by overfeeding the fish and water changes are done every 6 months to a year. CO2 is provided entirely by the fish as well. Leaves that die off are not removed from the tank at all but are allowed to decompose in the tank. Growth is generally somewhat slow but if done properly, algae is not an issue. Pruning isn't done often either, plants are allowed to grow freely wherever they will. Removal of excess plants is what most of the pruning consists of. ...
... It would seem that the soil leeches some nutrients into the water column or that it provides excess nutrients. I think the key to using the soil is to have the substrate almost entirely covered in plants so that there enough plants to take care of the nutrients. ...
(My comment re above - as specified in the theory and basic set-up info.)
http/naturalaquariums.com/bb/index.php?topic=634.15
... Jdogg also mentions that "unseen bug,micro organisms, and plants thats roots can become poisonous when broken and added to your tank" and suggests sterilization of garden soil as a precaution. I believe that baking of soil is both unnecessary and unhealthy. While many "unseen bug,micro organisms" will indeed die when submerged, there are many beneficial microorganisms present in the soil as well that will help in the nitrogen cycle, organic compound decomposition releasing CO2, etc. Besides, an aquarium is hardly a sterile environment. If I was really having issues with a particular brand of soil, I'd choose another brand of soil, not sterilize the soil, instead.
Also, here are some links to info on Diana Walstad and her tanks since I mention her research and / or tanks pretty prominently.
http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...na-walstad.html
http/www.aquabotanic.com/diana_walstad_gallery.htm ...
http/www.arofanatics.com/forums/archive/...p/t-180474.html
...
one of my Natural Aquarium. only sunlight, no CO2set, no special fert.........so result so so la....but I enjoy very much when the sunlight shine on it, you will be able to see alot of bubbles even from the sand.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hideyoshi13
03-01-2007, 09:44 AM
hey does anyone know how to set one up?
from what ive read it seems to be a balancing your bioload with your nitro-processing ability in your tank. it all sounds good makes sense...but how do we starT?!?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shad0w
03-01-2007, 09:52 AM
one of my Natural Aquarium. only sunlight, no CO2set, no special fert.........so result so so la....but I enjoy very much when the sunlight shine on it, you will be able to see alot of bubbles even from the sand.....
direct sunlight? for how long? wouldn't it cause algae bloom?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rwalker
07-10-2007, 03:46 PM
Don't think the link posted by the previous bro capture what is nature aquarium setup.
Please refer to the link below:
http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/
It is pioneered by Diana Walstad and the method also refer to as "el-natural" method. She has also authored a book named "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" on this topic.
In essence it is a low tech tank setup (no CO2 injection and dosing of liquid fertilizer) but no less beautiful. Garden or potting soil is used as base substrate which provides most of the nutrients for the rooted plant. Fish food/waste and water suppliment the rest.
Below is her tank photo:
http/www.aquabotanic.com/diana_walstad_gallery.htm ...
(End of comments.)
I haven't yet reached a stage where I'm ready to start cutting back on water changes in any of mine yet, although I'm undoubtedly disrupting the balance in some of those more established.
But as far as those who have somehow gained the impression that the Walstad method is more work:
you do have to be watchful over the first few months:
many people do continue regular water changes over some similar period and gradually reduce, although many others are able to immediately stock and drop all water changes for months at a time:
there is weekly maintenance regardless of water change schedules, which includes any necessary pruning, removal of excess dead plant matter, topping up of evaporated water, etc.
In other words, you may have have as much work as a normal tank over the first few months, depending, but if the basic tenets of the method are - and a little common sense is - used, thereafter far less maintenance and a great increase in water conservation, is possible.
Of course, I've been a rabid convert for some time...
http
/aquariumsblog.info/238-diana-walsta...o-planted-tanks... The end result is a tank that looks very different from any Dutch or Nature style aquarium, but that requires almost no maintenance, while maintaining a lush planted look. The types of plants available to someone starting an "el Natural" fish tank are somewhat limited, since lots of plants require high light and fertilization, but algae is rarely a problem. Unlike Dutch and Nature style aquariums, there is no set school for plant placement or composition of hardscape. This approach is also not designed for someone who likes to rescape their tank every few months, as moving plants around is difficult to do without disturbing the potting soil underneath the gravel. The natural soil substrate is probably the most volatile part of an "el Natural" style fish tank, and there are lots of do's and don'ts explained in Diana's book. However, once you get it set up, an "el Natural" style tank can be perfect for someone who is tired of dosing, testing, and re-dosing every day or for someone who just doesn't have the time for a high-tech aquarium. ...
(Problems come when people are unaware of the basic tenets of the method and, in too-common example, use soil which is artificially fertilized or contains too much organic debris which breaks down producing ammonia.
In the example below, the person involved left fish in distress in that situation, which seems rather indicative...)
http
/forum.nanfa.org/index.php?showtopic=2855... Do you have any nitrate problems with these? I tried this setup once in a 50 gallon and I couldn't keep the nitrates down. My nitrate test kit showed colors no where near anything on the chart even after water changes and chemicals. After two months my fish ended up getting velvet and a bad case of scratching and labored breathing and all perished. If that wasn't bad, the cleanup was a nightmare - my room smelled like I was hip deep in creek muck for days.
I would like to try it again but I'm not sure what I did wrong the first time. ...
(My interjection: in later comment, the problem identified: )
... That was my first time ever seeing more than 50 ppm and it kinda scared me so I scurried out and bought some amquel.
I had an inch of soil in the back 3/4 of the tank covered with sand then gravel. I was kind of leaning towards something in the soil. It was some off brand soil I wasn't familiar with, with a lot of woody debris n such...it was the only thing I could find in the dead of winter.
Funny you mentioned that book cause that's where I got the idea. ...
(Another commenter: )
... I have had tropical freshwater and marine tanks. I got to the point where I could not put the time, money needed into the hobby so I went with a Walstad set up using only locally collected plants and fish. Only the tank/stand, lights, and filter are store bought. The collecting trips make for a great family outing and my kids have a ball. The tank has been up for almost a year and is the most successful aquarium I have ever had with very little work involved. I have not lost any fish so far and the plants are doing great. The only algae is a very light coating on the glass that I wipe away every week or two. There is almost no algae growing on the plants, wood, rocks. A while back the plants were not growing well and I started getting some algae growth so I went against all conventional wisdom and increased the food I put into the tank, Conditions in the tank actually quickly improved. I change about 25% of the water every 3 months or so. Mostly out of guilt. I probably don't need to. The main chores are feeding and watching. If you are looking for a very low maintenace aquarium, in my opinion this is a perfect set up. At the beginning it is hard to break old maintenance habits, but things will go much better if just left alone. ...
(And a different person: )
... I packed in non-fertilized soil, some gravel on that, lots of plants and two compact fluorescent lights in my 20L. I've had the tank for maybe 10 months or so and haven't done one water change and I don't use salt or chemicals at all (I replace evaporated water when needed). I have no ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates no matter how much food or fish I put in there. I am a believer for sure. ...
(Comment further down: )
... Keep in mind that if you like a pristine tank and enjoy the tinkering this may not be for you. The filter is used mainly to provide circulation and heavy mechanical filter media is not recommended. Only clean when things are clogging. Carbon use is not recommended. The plants use up ammonia so biological filtration such as bio wheels, etc. should not be used. The waste products provide the plant fertilizer and slower growth is prefered (no CO2 injecters, added ferts). The tank will be more like a natural lake setting so crystal clear water may not be the case. But, if you are looking for a tank you can set up, sit back and enjoy this really works great. This is letting nature take care of itself. ...
(And another comment in response to a question: )
... So, nobody is doing Amano tanks?
Nah, they're a pain in the butt. All that work and they really are only sustainable for a couple of months, tops. Lovely, but I like to spend my time watching the fish, not obsessing over the plants. ...)
(My comment - there are many inaccuracies repeated, as illustrated below: while daylight is highly desirable, supplimental light is also required in many cases, as the emergent plants recommended as one of several plant types [including also floating and fast-growing stem plants] require about a 14 hr. photo period year-round, although this does not necessarily mean continuous 14 hr. lighting, as a 'siesta' period of several hours (using a timer switch) is now progressively more often employed for various reasons.
[Conservation of electricity, reduction of algae, a lack of need during times of bright morning/afternoon light through a window, etc.]
Certainly, there are those who can rely entirely or predominately on daylight throughout much of the year, but the photo period shortens at certain seasons, and too many dull/cloudy days can set plants back badly.
The length of my explanations explains why I ignore most inaccuracies...)
http
/www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/b...142118-4-1.aspx... Basically Diane Walstad's method of El Natural planting calls for pretty much nothing artificial. The substrate consists of soil and a thin layer of sand and even leaves. The lighting comes entirely from the sun. Water movement is provided by a single low powered powerhead (more than one in larger tanks). The water movement aids in the filtration which is provided entirely by the bacteria in the soil and plants. Ferts are provided by overfeeding the fish and water changes are done every 6 months to a year. CO2 is provided entirely by the fish as well. Leaves that die off are not removed from the tank at all but are allowed to decompose in the tank. Growth is generally somewhat slow but if done properly, algae is not an issue. Pruning isn't done often either, plants are allowed to grow freely wherever they will. Removal of excess plants is what most of the pruning consists of. ...
... It would seem that the soil leeches some nutrients into the water column or that it provides excess nutrients. I think the key to using the soil is to have the substrate almost entirely covered in plants so that there enough plants to take care of the nutrients. ...
(My comment re above - as specified in the theory and basic set-up info.)
http
/naturalaquariums.com/bb/index.php?topic=634.15... Jdogg also mentions that "unseen bug,micro organisms, and plants thats roots can become poisonous when broken and added to your tank" and suggests sterilization of garden soil as a precaution. I believe that baking of soil is both unnecessary and unhealthy. While many "unseen bug,micro organisms" will indeed die when submerged, there are many beneficial microorganisms present in the soil as well that will help in the nitrogen cycle, organic compound decomposition releasing CO2, etc. Besides, an aquarium is hardly a sterile environment. If I was really having issues with a particular brand of soil, I'd choose another brand of soil, not sterilize the soil, instead.
Also, here are some links to info on Diana Walstad and her tanks since I mention her research and / or tanks pretty prominently.
http
/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumap...na-walstad.htmlhttp
/www.aquabotanic.com/diana_walstad_gallery.htm ...http
/www.arofanatics.com/forums/archive/...p/t-180474.html...
one of my Natural Aquarium. only sunlight, no CO2set, no special fert.........so result so so la....but I enjoy very much when the sunlight shine on it, you will be able to see alot of bubbles even from the sand.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hideyoshi13
03-01-2007, 09:44 AM
hey does anyone know how to set one up?
from what ive read it seems to be a balancing your bioload with your nitro-processing ability in your tank. it all sounds good makes sense...but how do we starT?!?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shad0w
03-01-2007, 09:52 AM
one of my Natural Aquarium. only sunlight, no CO2set, no special fert.........so result so so la....but I enjoy very much when the sunlight shine on it, you will be able to see alot of bubbles even from the sand.....
direct sunlight? for how long? wouldn't it cause algae bloom?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rwalker
07-10-2007, 03:46 PM
Don't think the link posted by the previous bro capture what is nature aquarium setup.
Please refer to the link below:
http
/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/It is pioneered by Diana Walstad and the method also refer to as "el-natural" method. She has also authored a book named "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" on this topic.
In essence it is a low tech tank setup (no CO2 injection and dosing of liquid fertilizer) but no less beautiful. Garden or potting soil is used as base substrate which provides most of the nutrients for the rooted plant. Fish food/waste and water suppliment the rest.
Below is her tank photo:
http
/www.aquabotanic.com/diana_walstad_gallery.htm ...(End of comments.)
I haven't yet reached a stage where I'm ready to start cutting back on water changes in any of mine yet, although I'm undoubtedly disrupting the balance in some of those more established.
But as far as those who have somehow gained the impression that the Walstad method is more work:
you do have to be watchful over the first few months:
many people do continue regular water changes over some similar period and gradually reduce, although many others are able to immediately stock and drop all water changes for months at a time:
there is weekly maintenance regardless of water change schedules, which includes any necessary pruning, removal of excess dead plant matter, topping up of evaporated water, etc.
In other words, you may have have as much work as a normal tank over the first few months, depending, but if the basic tenets of the method are - and a little common sense is - used, thereafter far less maintenance and a great increase in water conservation, is possible.
Of course, I've been a rabid convert for some time...
kevinthecow
Fishaholic
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Grandparents kids? Get frogs, shrimps fish! They'll love looking at them, and pointing out whats what. I'd go with ADFs and Amanos. Zebra Danios are pretty hardy fish. I've had mine for years by now.
<3 ADFS. (Dont worry about breeding with them, eggs are usually eaten up by other fish.
<3 ADFS.
(Dont worry about breeding with them, eggs are usually eaten up by other fish.Similar threads
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