Kesaph's Fishless Cycle

[Kesaph]

Hi all.
Here's the numbers for my fishless cycle so far for this tank.
FYI I am in Australia. That means a viable Ammonia source is virtual impossible to acquire from the normal retail market apparently because it is a key component in bomb making.
It just so happens that my LFS knows about fishless cycling and carries AmmoniaChloride NH[sub]4[/sub]CL *most* of the time, just not right now when I needed it.
So I began my fishless cycle the way we all could, but nobody seems to want to do (or own up to doing).
It seems to have gone ok so far, and at the weekend my LFS let me know he had got some AmmoniaChloride powder back in stock, so now I can finish my cycle in a more conventional manner.

The tank has been constant at 29°C (except 1 day when it hit 32°C due to it being ~40°C outside).
There have been airstones running since Day 3.
PH has been fairly steady with a tendency to slide, perhaps due to the water softening over time. I have buffered once with BicarbSoda.

TapWater:
PH: 8.0, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]3[/sub]: 0

Day 1
PH: 7.9, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 4, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]3[/sub]: 0

Day 3
NH[sub]3[/sub]: 4

Day 4
PH: 7.9, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 8 - a natural increase appears to have occurred from initial dose

Day 5
40-45% Water change
NH[sub]3[/sub]: 4

Day 8
PH: 7.9, NH[sub]3[/sub]: ~6 - inbetween 4 & 8 on chart, must have massively overdosed initially!

Day 9
60% WC
NH[sub]3[/sub]: ~3

Day 10
NH[sub]3[/sub]: ~3

Day 11
PH: 7.9, NH[sub]3[/sub]: ~3, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5+, NO[sub]3[/sub]: ~2 - first nitrite spike. Added limestone today, coincidence?

Day 13
PH: 7.8, NH[sub]3[/sub]: <0.25, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5+, NO[sub]3[/sub]: ~3 - ammonia source added but unsure of what level

Day 14
NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5 - FIRST AMMONIA ZERO, more added but unsure of what level

Day 15
PH: 7.2, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0.5, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5 - dosed to 1ppm, PH drop; WC?

Day 16
PH: 7.2, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0.3, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 2+, NO[sub]3[/sub]: ~3 - dosed to 4ppm, no WC

Day 17
NH[sub]3[/sub]: 4

Day 19
NH[sub]3[/sub]: 4

Day 20
PH: 6.4, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 1.5, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5 - PH CRASH! dosed to 4ppm but WC tomorrow!

Day 21
75% WC - redosed to 4ppm after WC
PH: ~7.9, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 4, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5

Day 22
PH: 7.9, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 4, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 - FIRST NITRITE ZERO, took full 5 mins for Nitrite to turn blue

Day 23
PH: 7.8, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0.3, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]3[/sub]: 5 - more added but unsure of what level

Day 24
dosed to 2ppm
PH: 6.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 2, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 - PH on slide?

Day 25
PH: 6.4, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 2, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 - PH CRASH! WC tomorrow!

Day 26
60% WC, dosed to 2ppm
PH: 7.4, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 2, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 2

Day 27, 12:00
PH: 6.4, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0.1, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0.3 - PH CRASH AGAIN!! added BicarbSoda to 8.3, AmmChlor arrived!

Day 28, 15:00
PH: ~7.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0.1, NO[sub]3[/sub]: 5 - dosed to 4ppm

Day 29, 07:30
PH: ~7.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 - FIRST DOUBLE ZERO, dosed to 2ppm
18:00
PH: 7.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]3[/sub]: 15 - DOUBLE ZERO IN 10 HOURS!, dosed to 4ppm

Day 30, 10:30
PH: 7.2, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 1, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 May have dosed to 8ppm by mistake!
21:30
PH: 7.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 dosed to 4ppm

Day 31, 09:00
PH: 7.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0
21:30
PH: 6.8, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 Added BicarbSoda, dosed to 4ppm

Day 32, 09:00
PH: 7.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0
21:30
PH: 7.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 dosed to 4ppm

Day 33, 09:00
NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0 assumed NH[sub]3[/sub] 0
21:30
PH: 7.4 checked PH but assumed assumed NH[sub]3[/sub] & NO[sub]2 [/sub]0 dosed to 4ppm

Day 34,
didn't get to do am test.
plants added in late hours, dosed to 8ppm (as a boost for plants)

Day 35, 13:30
PH: 6.8, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0.25, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5
23:30
PH: 7.6, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5, NO[sub]3[/sub]: 40-80? dosed to 2ppm

Day 36,
PH: 6.4, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5 Added BicarbSoda

Day 37, 07:30
PH: 6.4, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5 dosed to 4ppm
21:00
PH: 6.4, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 5

Day 38, 12:30
PH: 6.4, NH[sub]3[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]2[/sub]: 0, NO[sub]3[/sub]: 40-80? Added BicarbSoda to PH7.4, dosed to 4ppm

So this is where I am up to...

 

[Gvilleguy]

Oh. It took me a minute but finally got your reference to how you started the cycle! Your cycle is looking good. The water changes seem to be handling the ph drops nicely. Sounds like you have naturally soft water like me.

 

[Kesaph]

Day 30 double zeros (even after a possible overdose the night before)
Day 31 double zeros, Ph dropped so added small amount of BiCarbSoda

 

[Kesaph]

Day 32 double zeros.

Fish in this weekend or next?

 

[Kesaph]

Day 33 double zeros
Day 34 double zeros, plants & a little extra sand substrate added. Dosed to 8ppm for plants benefit
Day 35 amm 0, nitrites 5+, nitrates 40-80 hard to tell colour difference, PH bounced 6.8 -7.6 between am pm tests. small dose to 2ppm while nitrites recover

 

[waterdrop]

give it some more time if you're getting some big bounces in nitrite

 

[Kesaph]

I agree waterdrop,
I decided after seeing today's figures to wait until next weekend before considering putting fish in. I'm going to maintain a slightly higher Ammonia level though if possible to compensate for the plants. It will also be interesting to see if they do anything with the nitrAte levels (which are annoyingly hard to pinpoint as the colour increment from 40-80 appears non existent on the APi card!).

Interestingly the tank processed 8ppm+ Ammonia (I put more than double my usual dose in so I reckon nearer 10ppm) in ~8hours!!

 

[Kesaph]

Day 36 amm 0, nitrites 5+, no dose, PH 6.4
Day 37 amm 0, nitrites 5+, dosed to 4ppm in am, 0/5 in pm, PH 6.4
Day 38 nitrites 0 (finally!) PH 6.4, added biCarb to 7.4, nitrates 40-80 hard to tell colour difference, dosed amm to 4ppm

 

[waterdrop]

Probably won't matter as you may be close to getting finished but be aware that you don't want ammonia levels to get up around 8ppm as this encourages a different species of A-Bac that can indeed process ammonia very fast but the problem with this wrong species is that after the ammonia drops way back down it dies quickly and leaves the attachment positions on the biomedia clogged with it's own biofilm, causing a long gap before correct cycling can recur. This only happens though when fishless cycling concentrations are repeatedly done at around 8ppm rather than 4-5ppm.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Kesaph]

Adding the plants seems to have messed up the lovely double zeros I was seeing, so I'm now not dosing any higher than 4ppm. PH dropped but remained stable at around 6.4 since adding the plants which could also explain the slow down, however this may be my 'stable' tank level. I will continue to raise the PH with BiCarb until fish go in, after that if it drops further I may consider some crushed coral in the filter if the fish I choose require a PH level higher than 6.4.
I (and my 2yr old son) really want to put fish in ASAP, but I am reminding myself that patience is a virtue.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, dead fish are worse than no fish, even to a 2yr-old. A pH of 6.4 can definately be close to a stall of the fishless cycling process. Is your bicarb getting you up to the 8.0 to 8.4 ideal range? That's really where you want to be. The bicarb then all goes out with the big water change and often your tank chemistry is pretty different after cycling is over and fish are in.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. I never finished that other multi-installment question I was answering for you, did I? probably lost it's place now...

 

[Kesaph]

I've never had the PH up to 8.0. Out of the tap it's 7.8/7.6 and have been running with this. However it does seem that the water has a lower stable/resting PH (I will test a glass over a couple of days) around at this 6.4 mark as my tank has repeatedly fallen to this level, though no lower apparently.

Last night it read 7.6, though this morning has dropped 0.2 to 7.4.
To reiterate I have sand, bogwood and plants in the tank (I removed the limestone features I was going to use, I could put a couple of pieces back in if it would help).

 

[waterdrop]

I used to be more cautious but I've come to feel there's nothing wrong with using bicarb to take it on up in the 8 range. I don't know of any negative effects on plants either (some plants don't like the higher ammonia of fishless cycling though, even though they'll absorb some of it.) Mostly we've had positive growth enhancement from higher pH, occasional full water changes if things stall and plenty of surface movement and so slowing of filter flow. WD