Just Set Up First Tropical Tank...excited.

[LilyRose Tank]

Hello thee everyone. This seems to be the place for fish lovers and I delighted to have joined. My Grandfather had a tank when i was young, and I loved watching the Neons.
ell now its our turn. We have 5 children , the youngest has autism and we believed a fish tank would be a great visual stimulus for her. So we took her to Plantasia Swansea, and she loved all the fish. So I bought an Interpet |FP64 today and have set it up with the heater and filter, Its water volume is 60 litres ( 38x30x60cm) so added two caps of tp water treatment and 2mls of filter first. after setting it all up of course. I added red gravel, with real plants and cream/terracotta stones and i think for my first attempt it looks fab. cant wait til i get the fish in there. I plan on putting in;
neon tetra(2), cardinal tetra(2), glowlight tetra(2), lemon tetra(2), guppies (m:f...1/3)(4) and mickey mouse platies(2), golden platies(2), cherry barb (2) golden Danio(2), zebra danio(2), white tipped tetra(2), and a few others around the same size. may get 2 snails too.
Does this set up seem ok, please advise what happens next. do i have to get the water tested ( take aquarium sample in dr's wee wee pot?)



the blue light on the left is from the moon lamp

 

[rebrn]

Hello and welcome,

I am not sure about your stocking plan I will let the more experienced people answer that one. But before you add fish you need to cycle you filter. There are 2 ways to do this, one with fish in the tank (fish-in cycle) and two using ammonia and no fish (fish less cycle). Here is the link to the Beginners Resource Centre, it will walk you though both methods, there are also some other very helpful links in there: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

I would recommend doing a fish less cycle, it is better for the fish and much easier for you. If you use fish to cycle your tanks you will need to do a lot of water changes during the time it takes to cycle your tank, also you have a much higher chance of fish dying during a fish in cycle. The best way to go is fish less cycle. I believe you will have to remove your plants if you do a fish less cycle (not 100% sure on that), you can put them back in after the cycle is complete.

The stuff you added called Filter first, probably said that it cycles your tank instantly, or perhaps it said something like safe to add fish immediately. In either case, it is most likely a "bacteria in a bottle" product, and to be completely honest, they don't work. Read through the cycling methods (link above) that is where you need to start before you decide to add any fish.

The other thing you will need to purchase is a liquid test kit. If you are in the US the most readily available in store is API, if in the UK Hagen Nutrafin or Saliferts are fairly easy to find. But you can also get any of these on-line. You will need at a minimum ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph tests. Check out this post, not a perfect article but might help you out some: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/315183-liquid-test-kits-how-to-perform-and-read-tests/page__p__2611010__fromsearch__1&#entry2611010

Good luck.

 

[mattlee]

hi and welcome to the forum
please read up on the cycling methods for your tank before adding any fish to see which one is right for you, there are pinned topics on here to help you. also there is a general rule for stocking your tank with fish which is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water, so a 60L tank is about 13 gallons of water therefor you should be looking for about 13 inches of fish in total. you may get away with slightly more if you choose smaller fish like neons etc.
also most of the fish you have listed prefer to be in as larger groups as possible so i wouldnt go for just 2 of each maybe go for 2 bigger groups of 2 species. with neons and quite a lot of tetras its best to add them to a well established 6 month old+ tank as they are very sensitive and you may lose them if added too soon as the filters bacteria and water conditions wont be right for them.
there are also things like water pH, temp and hardness that need to be considered when choosing fish as some just dont do well in certain types of water. cherry barbs prefer cooler water than alot of tropical fish so wont be ideal tank mates for things like neons etc.
also the filter first bacteria in a bottle is next to useless and is just a money making scam in most peoples eyes but we all have bought it from lfs with our first tank...... try not to listen to the people at the fish shops too much as they just want your money! if in doubt ask on here and someone will put you right no matter how simple or advanced the question
i hope i havent put you off, i really didnt mean to if i have. but there are alot of things to consider when choosing fish and cycling a tank ready for them.
good luck with the tank and please ask on here for advise there are alot of experienced fish keepers that are here to help you out

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Thanks to both of you. the filter first stuff came as an all in with my tank setup, but i plan to do a fish less cycle anyways. thanks, i shall be heading to the local aquarium store tomorrow to get the testing kits and the ammonia. do i have to remove the plants?

 

[rebrn]

I think you do but don't quote me on that. You can put them in clear plastic containers with dechlorinated water and put them on a window ledge to get sun they should be fine like that, but again, wait for someone with more plant experience to comment before you do anything.

Also when you get your ammonia, make sure it just says ammonia, or ammonia and water, you do not want any surfactants in the ingredient list, if you are unsure give it a good shake, if it foams DO NOT use it. A few bubbles that disperse quickly is ok but if it foams put it back.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

OKthanks for that, How long does cycling take. I wasn't told about it at the store!

 

[rebrn]

It varies, the average is 2-3 months. Some take longer, some shorter. If you can get a hold of some mature filter media that will go a long way to speeding up the process. In the Beginners resouce center there is a link for people from this fourm willing to donate mature media, you can check that out and see if there is anyone close to you. Or sometimes if you ask really nicely the LFS will donate some to you, or I have heard tale of local aquariums donating, but not sure on the last one.

 

[LilyRose Tank]

thankyou x

 

[mattlee]

the bacteria needed usually grow quicker in a higher pH and a higher temp tank. you cant really do much about your pH level without adding chemicals which in my eyes is a no no but turn the heat up to about 29 degrees and this should help it along

 

[LilyRose Tank]

OK thanks, I turned it up to 29 this morning, must be psychic ( or psychotic my hubby says!) anyways, I assume the ammonia puts the pH level up which increases bacterial growth, but where do the bacteria come from in the first place? Why would I be told to set up and leaveit for 5 - 10 days and then add fish. i expect this is a simplified version on the fish in method. any ideas?

 

[mattlee]

OK thanks, I turned it up to 29 this morning, must be psychic ( or psychotic my hubby says!) anyways, I assume the ammonia puts the pH level up which increases bacterial growth, but where do the bacteria come from in the first place? Why would I be told to set up and leaveit for 5 - 10 days and then add fish. i expect this is a simplified version on the fish in method. any ideas?

your local fish shop (lfs) will tell you this just to keep you interested and to buy some fish...! the ammonia thats put in the tank in time will cause bacteria to grow in your filter that reduces the levels of ammonia to cut it short... you will then get a nitrite spike and bacteria will grow that reduces the nitrite levels, once this is complete the end product will be nitrate which isnt deadly to fish but should be kept down to a minimum by the weekly water changes we all do. once your filter is capable of reducing ammonia levels in 12 hours without any nitrite showing on your tests and nitrate is being produced basically your tank is cycled. google the nitrogen cycle to get better factual explanation
the lfs will keep selling you fish and eventually your tank will be cycled by the ammonia produced by your fish but you will have losty a few fish along the way and the surviving fish may be internally damaged as they will have been poisoned by the ammonia, nitrite etc in the water so may not last as long!
ammonia doesnt alter the pH, i think, but a high pH tank seems to cycle quicker in my experience and a higher temp helps too. just be sure to drop the temp to the required heat after the tank is cycled so you dont cook the fish if the lfs told you that you would have to wait 2/3 months before you add any fish you would go somewhere else and get told what you did and go for that as you think they should know what theyre on about...... some do but no lfs i know sells ammonia, they just advise hardy fish like platys to start with as these can survive most water conditions but will still be poisoned while the tank/filter is cycling.

fish in cycling involves large water changes every day to try and stop your fish being poisoned but when eventually cycled it will only be cycled to the amount of fish in the tank at the time and any new fish must only be added 2 at a time to let the filter catch up with the ammonia/bioload as it will be increased. if you do fishless and follow the guide lines on here the filter will be able to handle a fully stocked tank as the amount of ammonia added each day while cycling will be far more than what the fully stocked tank can produce.
i was told the same as you with my first tank and i lost 8 neons and a dwarf gourami, not expensive fish but still i poisoned them do death by the advise i was given by the lfs, i was half way through a fish in cycle without knowing and the lfs just kept selling me new fish every week

 

[LilyRose Tank]

Mattlee... thanks very much for the info, i had realised that the shops are all about making money I plan to cycle my tank, but how long will cycling a 64litre tank take.
As I understand,
1..add ammonia to 4/5ppm ( I assume there is a method of calculating how much ammonia to use for 64litres)
2.. test water for ammonia every day? to get idea of conversion to nitrite
3..add more ammonia once ammonia levels are near 0.
4..once nitrite levels are " off the chart" test for nitrate
5.. add ammonia every time levels drop to 0 ( add to increase to 5ppm)
6..then when ammonia level drops to 0 in 12 hours and there is no nitrite present, with nitrate present, then cycling is complete

can someone please let me know if i'm right, wrong, something right etc, need to know so i understand the method throughout the process. I dont want to be second guessing myself and then get it wrong and have set backs

Plus I've decided on Platies, guppies and danios? does this seem ok?

 

[rebrn]

to answer some of your points with question marks;

1 - Yes add ammonia to 4-5ppm - the amount will depend on the concentration of your ammonia. You can start with a 1 L jug, figure out how many drops it takes to get one litre to 4ppm then multiply buy 64 to determine the amount you will need (be sure to write that down somewhere for later)
2 - Yes you should test every day for ammonia and nitrites - once you start to get nitrites you should start testing every 12 hours.
3 - once ammonia gets to 0 yes re-dose tank to 4ppm UNLESS your nitrites are high (nitrite spike) then only dose to 2ppm, once your nitrite spike is over, then start dosing the tank slowly back to 4ppm and remember only dose with ammonia ONCE in a 24 hour period if needed.
4 - In a fish less cycle you can test for nitrates to make sure that your nitrogen cycle is in fact reaching the nitrate phase, but to be honest, you don't have to do this everyday, as the nitrate reading will continue to increase through out the cycle and you are really not going to do anything about it. I would test nitrates maybe once a week, just to make sure you are seeing them, but once you see that nitrates are present you really don't need to test for them again until after you do the large water change at the end. You want to make sure, at the end, before adding fish, that you have changed enough water to get the nitrates down to safe levels (really anything less than 20 is fine - or rather you don't ever want you nitrates to be 10-15 ppm higher than your tap water once you add fish. So if your tap water is 0ppm for nitrates, after the large water change you don't want your nitrates to be higher than 15ppm when you add the fish.
5 - see point 3
6 - Yes 12 hours after you dose with ammonia you want 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrates (again only dose with ammonia once in a 24 hour period), once you have double zeros (0 ammonia and 0 nitrite) 12 hours after dosing with ammonia for a minimum of 7 days your tank is cycled, complete the final water change (around 90%) to decrease your nitrate levels then you can add fish.

Also, if your pH is low, you can add baking soda to your tank to increase it, you really want your pH to stay in the high 7s to mid 8s to ensure your cycle does not stall. Adding baking soda works very quickly and is not good to do if you have fish in the tank, but during a fish less cycle it is perfectly fine to add.

I think your stocking plan looks fine but I will let the more experienced people comment on that.

Good Luck, and remember if you run into any problems or need clarification just post. Everyone here is super helpful.

 

[natalie265]

Platies, guppies and danios (zebra?) are all great fish for beginners. I think you're wise to have limited your species to 3. The fish will be happier and more attractive that way. What size is the tank? Zebra danios are small, but are active fish and like to have a bit of space. Plus, keep in mind that with the platies and guppies, you will almost certainly have fry.

It is best to remove the plants while you do a fishless cycle. If you keep the plants in the tank, you will have to light the tank during the day. Ammonia + light= algae! Cycle the tank in the dark and avoid this problem.

Good luck w/the fishless cycle! I know your kids are probably itching to get fish in that tank, but your patience will pay off!

 

[LilyRose Tank]

ok thanks guys, think i got the cycling thing now, i hope (phew!).The size of my tank is 64litres ( 60x38x28cms)i love golden zebra danios, they are so pretty. OK i shall remove my plants, where do i keep them in the mean time! ( tank is cloudy at the mo)i havnt tested water for anything yet, as i said very newbie. Need to buy ammonia and testing kit...where from and how much should I expect to pay, please?

Also should I be doing all this cycling with lights off until all tests are completed and fish loaded?

I also just removed all plants and flora dabris from tank as well as 50% water change, as I havn't started ammonia cycling yet, I wanted to remove as much plant debris to aviod the algae build up problem occuring.. Thanks again