Just Got A 20g Long Betta Tank =d

[ayobreezie]

Well, I just aquired a 20 Gallon long tank.. that I'm going to use for a Betta and maybe a school of neon tetras and a school of Corydora's.. well, right now, I've had the tank for about 1 day.. I added "Start Right" to it.. which was recommended by the pet shop owner I talked to.. she told me I needed a 100W heater, which I got.. Penn Plax submersible heater, and I bought a PennPlax Cascade 150 filter from her... seemed like a cheaper alternative to a biowheel setup. So far, I have gravel and one artificial decoration.. a big log.. from walmart.. I have a Fluorescent light that is a little small for the 20G Long, but I'm going to go order some custom 29 1/8" x 5" glass to hold that.. and then a 29 1/8" x 4 1/2" for a cover.. a cheap alternative to the $60 hood she tried to sell me... well, I bought 1 betta from her.. it's a butterfly.. blue and red. Looks real good.. I just wanna know if I'm doing this all right.. so, here's the list:

20 Gallon Long
Filter: Penn Plax Cascade 150
Heater: Penn Plax 100W Submersible
Fluorescent light.

The pH level was my main concern.. it's over 8, I believe. I can't tell if it's 7.8 or 8.0.. but I bought some test strips to test it.. I've been adding a little more Start Right and more than enough pH decreaser.. and it's still at that level.. barely any change. What I'm wondering is.. if it's okay to put him in now, or leave him in a small container until I have temp, pH levels all settled where I need them? I almost bought "Cycle," which was some Wal Mart product that advertised that it was a bottle of good bacteria.. that will cycle my tank faster.. Please let me know ASAP.. thank you!!! I eventually want live plants also.. but I was told by the pet shop owner not to get any until 3 weeks+...

And what type of fish can I keep with my betta? He was in a tank with fancy guppy, neon tetras and corydoras.. I didn't think the guppies would get along with him.. hmm.. just wondering what other community fish options I have. Thanks in advance!

 

[radioman]

Is your tank cycled at all because you should cycle it before you put fish in it( you can do a cycle with fish but is not recommended).

 

[ayobreezie]

Is your tank cycled at all because you should cycle it before you put fish in it( you can do a cycle with fish but is not recommended).

How do I cycle without fish? Because there's not very many fish stores around.. and that pet shop doesn't have any type of cycling bacteria.. but Wal Mart has that bottle of "Cycle" Which is supposed to be good bacteria in a bottle? Should I try that?

 

[radioman]

I just asked about that here 2 days ago they told me it was junk and not to try, it to cycle without fish go to the fishless cycle topic that is at the top of the forum.

 

[ayobreezie]

Hmm... well, my nitrite and nitrate levels are both at 0.. hardness is at "hard" on this scale.. and the alkalinity is high. The pH is still at about 8.0... still seems pretty high to me..

 

[radioman]

I see that rdd is looking at this post he would be the one to answere those questions since he has alot more experience than me. Sorry I couldn't have been more help just dont want to mess you up.

 

[rdd1952]

First off, hello and welcome to the forum.

The person at the store has steered you in the wrong direction but that is normal. Unfortunately, most of the pet store employees don't know a lot about fish and what is required to properly set up a tank.

You tank definitely isn't cycled so you will have to watch the ammonia and nitrite levels and do water changes as needed to keep them below .25ppm. Fortunately, with only one betta in a 20 gallon tank, they won't rise very fast.

You mentioned that you had test strips, If you haven't opened them yet, take them back and get a good liquid master test kit that will test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Strips are terribly inaccurate, cost too much and usually the 5 in 1 strips that they sell you don't test for ammonia which is the most important thing you can test for right now.

Don't waste your money on the Cycle. It doesn't work. The only products that do work are Bio-Spira (US only) and Bactinettes. And they are only good if they have been refrigerated all the time and aren't expired (they have a pretty short shelf life).

Your pH is pretty high for the fish you want to keep but they can adapt to the pH. The main problem you will have though is that ammonia (from fish waste) becomes more toxic as pH rises so even an ammonia readiing of .25 to .5 ppm is very toxic in water with a pH of 7.8 or 8.0. I would suggest adding some driftwood to your tank to help lower it some naturally. It may not help a lot though if the KH is also high. YOu can take a sample of your watre to the fish store and they can test it for you. Just make sure they tell you the exact reading so you can come back and let us know what it is. Otherwise they will just say it's hard or soft or whatever.

As far as the live plants are concerned, the sooner you get them the better. Plants use nitrate and ammonia so a heavily planted tank can be lightly stocked immediately as the plants will use the ammonia before it can be converted to nitrite and then to nitrate.

Lastly, you are right that guppies and bettas should not be put together. Bettas will see the brightly colored guppies with their large tails as another betta and attack them. But then, as I said the pet stores usually don't know any better.

 

[ayobreezie]

Thanks, that was really helpful.. I haven't put the Betta in yet.. should I leave him in a the jar I have him in until the water levels are good or should I just put him in.. don't really want to stress him out, but I think he's stressed either way.. just don't want to make it worse.

 

[rdd1952]

It's hard to say. You have 2 options though..

Option 1 is to go ahead and put him in. You will have to keep a close eye on ammonia and nitrite and possibly do water changes to keep the levels low until the bacteria develop to handle it. Even then, you will only have a very small amount of bacteria, just enough to process the waste of 1 fish. Adding more fish will mean that the bacteria will have to catch up by multiplying it's numbers. Generally, bacteria can double in about 24 hours so if you added 3 more fish (tripled the bioload), it would take about 3 days for the tank to cycle again. Again you would be back to testing daily and doing water changes as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrite low.

Option 2 is to leave the betta in a bowl and do a fishless cycle on the tank. This would mean that you would need to get some ammonia and add it to start building the bacteria colony. It would also mean you would probably have to do 100% water changes on the bettas bowl until the tank cycled and was ready for fish. The biggest advantage of this option is that when the tank is cycled, you can add all your fish at once. If you use this option, I would get some Prime and add some to his bowl every day between water changes to detoxify the ammonia.

Actually, there is a 3rd option and that is to return the betta and do the fishless cycle provided they would take him back.

I'm not sure which one is going to be the easiest. Either way the betta is going to be subjected to some ammonia. The level will probably be lower in the tank as his waste will be diluted by 20 gallons of water rather than what little water is in the bowl.

 

[ayobreezie]

Yeah, I like option 3, but I don't think I ever want to go back to this lady's store again.. she told me all I had to do was test for pH.. and nothing else.. and that I shouldn't even worry because the tap water here is already at 7.8pH.. hmm.. I'll probably go to PetsMart to get a master kit and maybe some plants.. hopefully it's safe.

 

[rdd1952]

Untill, you get to know the employees at the fish stores, unfortunately, you almost have to go with the trust no one line of thinking. The best thing to do as far as the fish you eventually get is to go to the store and write down the fish you really like. Go back home and research them or post here if you can't find answers. People will let you know if they are compatible or not.

By the way, the link to the pinned topic on fishless cycling is in my signature if you haven't found it yet.

 

[ayobreezie]

Another question.. are my supplies good for a community tank? the filter is my main concern.. heater seems to be fine... got it up to 76/77 degrees.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with your supply brands so I can't help you there.

Just wanted to say (because I'm not sure if anyone else said it)...don't waste money on products to change the pH. Fish can adapt to almost any pH, but it's best if the pH is stable. Chemical products that raise or lower the pH only do so temporarily which can cause swings in the pH that fish really don't like.

 

[rdd1952]

Actually it looks like you are fine on the heater and filter. Of course there is the place where they make up for their lack of knowledge. They sell you something that's really overkill for your tank but in the long run it's good. General minimum filtration is 5 times the tank volume. I'm assuming that the filter is rated 150 gallon per hour which means you have about 7 and a half times the tank volume. Extra filtration will allow a heavier than normal stocking load. For the heater, you need at least 3 watts per gallon and you have 5 so you are good there too.

 

[ayobreezie]

I see.. would I eventually need like an air pump of some type if I plan to make it a community tank? Or will a HOB filter work well enough for oxygen?