Jumped in too early - Need help

[Nicholas]

Ok, I wholeheartedly admit that i jumped into this too big too quick and under some poor advice. I bought a 37 gallon eclipse tank, don't know anything about it - if you have information on filters or lighting please help me. I haven't done anything to it - no new lights or new filters and it sounds like other people have added things to there tanks, should I?
Added $500 worth of live rock, and a bunch of live sand on the bottom was that good, bad, dunno? Let tank sit for a while (about a month), added 1 dwarf lion fish, 1 panther grouper, 1 flame angel, 1 bicolor angel, 1 giant red knobbed starfish, and 1 very large hermit crab. Everything fine for about 3 weeks - month. Then SLAM! Last two days, come home twice and each time the crab devours an angel fish. Took him out, now lion fish has scrapes on his sides and swims in circles and runs into things.
How often should i be feeding - I do 1 block of frozen "Prime Reef" every other day.
Sorry so many questions but I don't like seeing fish die obviously and I kept asking questions to my local fish store and they seem to be full of you know what. They told me the hermit crab would not attack anything and he would just sift through the sand. The damn things looks like BamBam slamming the giant starfish around if it goes to low on the aquarium.
Should I convert this to be a reef tank so I don't have to worry about things eating each other so much? And finally, is there any way the live rock can be eaten too much because though there are still many live things on the rock (snails, stringy things, little urchins and tiny crabs, and so on) there seems to be far less than there was and one rock has even began turning bleach white in patches. Thank you very much for the patience, as I have lost much of mine.

 

[mbunaman]

a lot in that tank mate for a marine set up.

Whats the ph and density of your water?

Whats the Temperature.

 

[cichlidmaster]

Nicholas,
Hi and welcome to the site. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

While marine/reef are in no ways my specialty, I do have a limited amount of tales to tell.

First off, take the panther grouper back to the shop!! These can grow up to 10" and are a predatory species that cannot be kept with smaller fish.

Here is a link with some basic info...Panther Grouper

The dwarf lionfish or Dendrochirus brachypterus is also a predatory species. While it will attain an adult size of 15 cm or 6" it cannot be trusted with smaller fish either...Dwarf Lionfish

The flame angel or Centropyge loriculus is a peaceful species that only grows to about 4". It's diet consists mainly of algae in the wild......Flame Angel

The Bi-Color Angel or Centropyge bi-color ia also a peaceful species and should be kept in small groups. It too eats a diet mostly of algae in the wild. It can attain a size of 5"...Bi-Color Angel

Don't have too much info on your particular species of starfish, but here is some general info on seastars...Starfish

Without knowing what species of hermit crab you have it is hard to give any info.......

Now for the hard lesson............

Years ago, I too jumped into a saltwater tank head first!! Keep in mind I had several years of experiance keeping freshwater tanks and at the time had 13 tanks up and running...Well I figured "how hard could it be" right!!!

WRONG!!!!!! I quickly learned that the two are totally different in care and maintenance. I lost several hundred dollars worth of animals in a very short period of time. WHY??? Lack of knowledge!!!

I simply did not take the time to learn about the animals I was preparing to keep....

Why am I disclosing one of my few failures??? To try to help you or anyone else contemplating going the marine/reef course.

IMO without prior experience keeping fish one should not venture into marine/reef keeping without first reading up on the basics and learning all they can. It is also imperative to find a shop worth giving your money to, not one that is simply going to tell you "these animals will be fine together" so they can make a sale!!

You may not want/need to hear this, but IMO take your remaining animals back and start by purchasing a good referrence manual. You will then be better prepared to keep the marine animals in an environment conducive to their welfare.

I am not in anyway trying to make you feel worse than you probably already do and that is why I shared my first and last experiance with marines with you. You see I have been in the hobby for a good many years now and currently have over 135 aquariums in service.

Patience does pay off. Don't give up, simply go at it from a different angle.

Good luck and let us know how everything turns out.

CM

 

[whacky]

Ok Firstly welcome to the board nicholas while you situation is bad it is not salvageable.

Idealy it would be good to have the details of all the water parameters of you tank before giving you more advice to act on, however as you are one of are US members it could be a couple of days with time differences before you are able to act on any advice.

With the fish you have in your tank the first thing i would do is take them ALL back, for the following reasons the grouper can grow up to 10" to big or your tank, lionfish because it is a predatory fis and will at anything it can, Both the angels should go back as imo they should only be added to mature systems. As for the starfish and hermit with little knowledge i would imagine your system may not have completely cycled and the huge loading you placed on the system would not have been benificial.

Ok now we no longer have any fish to worry about we can address the tank itself, I being from the uk i do not know anything about the tank you have bought so i cannot comment on the suitablility of it. However to dispel a myth straight away it is not better to start with a small tank. This is because things happen slower in large tanks best way i can illistrate this is if you put a teabag into a cup full of water it will quickly turn the water tea coloured, if you put the teabag into a bath full of water it would take longer to colour the bath if at all. So you have a big tank thats a good thing!

Marine fish keeping is moving more and more to natural methods ie the live rock and sand both have benificail bacteria in them which help the cycling process in your tank, in your case the bleaching of the rock indicates that it is dying which probably further indicates poor water conditions in your tank.

So as far as water goes i would do a 20% water change The SG of this water shouldbe around the 1.022 mark, as should the existing water in your tank.

When your wanting to add things to the tank the amount of time that has past isnt the determening factor it is the water quality, before ading to the tank you shoul have 0 ammonia and nitrite and as little as possible nitrate, ph should be between 8and 8.3.

Can you test your tank for the parameters and let me know?

Next find your self a good book one i reccomend would be "th new marine aquarium by Michael S Palleta"

You should at the very least have a skimmer, on your tank light you can have normal flourescent tubes for now aslong as you arent going to add corals to your tank to soon.

Finally find yourself a different fish shop as if you were told that what you have done was fine then they cant be much good.

hope thats of some use dont give it all in now a marine tank is worth it in the end it gives a real sense of achievement

 

[Great Lakes]

Nicholas. How many pounds of live rock do you have? The rock and the live sand will be an enormous help with biological filtration. The bad news is, 37 gallons of water allows you to have ONE fish that will grow to an adult length of about four inches. That, or three or four damsels, which are smaller in size. You were completely overstocked by about 4X. You live rock could be suffering from water conditions as Whacky has said, or it could be inadequate lighting.

Keep us informed...

 

[Nicholas]

Yeah I appreciate all the advice, it's taken me a couple of days before responding but I returned all of the fish to the fish store and have since stopped using their services, especially because of their inaccurate information. As it is, I went ahead and bought a 10,000k and a blue actinic bulb to put in the tank, I bought a few green chromies, some snails, a piece of button polyps, and a small anemone. Everything seems to be doing much better (i.e. no one is being torn to pieces) Any problems with the anemone I believe it is called a bubble tip? Also I would like to get a small clown fish would that be a problem?

I also purchased these chemicals: Iodine, Strontium, and Calcium A & B. I was previously not using anything. The Live rock is purple and red and has many things coming out from it - the white spot is no longer there.

How big to the little blue legged hermit crabs get (will they get big enough to attack any fish?)

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Great Lakes]

Good, now just start achieving a quality stable system before going further. A clown would probably be OK.