Its Just Fish Everywhere!

[STRiDER]

Hi All
Its been a week since my tank is running and so far so good!! (touch wood)

I've been working on a list of inhabitants that I would run by you all for comments.
(Please note that I have almost no previous experience and are open to all suggestions!)

My tank net volume is calculated at 310 litres (82 gallons) and surface area 6428 sq cm (7 sq Feet / 1000sq inches).

I'm working on a stock level of 2.5cm (1 inch) fish per 30 sq cm (4.7 sq inch) making it 536 cm (211 inches) of adult fish.

EDIT: Scroll down to see NEW proposed list :EDIT

Current proposed list:

Bottom dwellers
4 x Corydoras Catfish Bronze (24cm / 9.5")
4 x Corydoras Catfish Panda (24cm / 9.5 ")
4 x Clown Loach (52cm / 20.5")

Algae Eaters
4 x Siamese Algae Eaters (52 cm / 20.5")
2 x Bristlenose Catfish (30 cm / 12")

Shoals
24 x Neon Tetras (72 cm / 28")
18 x Zebra Danios (90cm / 35")
8 x Rosy Barbs (80cm / 32")

Signature Fish
3 x Swordtails (30cm / 12")
3 x Siamese Fighters (18 cm / 7")
3 x Dwarf Gourami (15cm / 6")

Total at 487cm (192 inches)

(From what I've seen on these forum pages, it seems like maybe too much fish )

Suggestions as to community compatibility, stock levels and shoal sizes are welcome!!
Also if you want to suggest a different species and why, please do so.

regards
Andre

 

[jtnova13]

the inch of fish per gallon rule really applies more to smaller tanks in you 82 i think you will be fine with that much fish if oyu have adequate filtration and do timely water cahnges. are you planning on planting the tank?


i think you will prolly run into a problem with the rosy barbs and the dwarf gourami's if rosy barbs are anything like tigers. barbs are fin nippers and will nip at the gourami's as they are slower. i tried a shoal of tiger barbs with my 6 dwarf gourami in a 60 gallon that was 2' tall so i thought the separation would be enough since gourami are top swimmers and tiger barbs are middle, but they still nipped the feelers and tails.

other than that i think you are alright

 

[Underwurlde]

3 x Siamese Fighters (18 cm / 7")

Not a good idea?!?!?!?! Put them together and you'll be left with just one.

(unless you have 2 females and 1 male but even then they can still be aggressive to each other)

There is a Betta section, ask about these fish & combo you have there as well?

Also, since you do have a large tank i'll mention this: all the fish listed above (bar the fighters of course) do best when in a shoal with a minimum of 6 individuals, i.e.

>=6 x Corydoras Catfish Bronze (24cm / 9.5")
>=6 x Corydoras Catfish Panda (24cm / 9.5 ")
>=6 x Clown Loach (52cm / 20.5")

etc

Andy

 

[STRiDER]

the inch of fish per gallon rule really applies more to smaller tanks in you 82 i think you will be fine with that much fish if oyu have adequate filtration and do timely water cahnges. are you planning on planting the tank?


i think you will prolly run into a problem with the rosy barbs and the dwarf gourami's if rosy barbs are anything like tigers. barbs are fin nippers and will nip at the gourami's as they are slower. i tried a shoal of tiger barbs with my 6 dwarf gourami in a 60 gallon that was 2' tall so i thought the separation would be enough since gourami are top swimmers and tiger barbs are middle, but they still nipped the feelers and tails.

Thanx jtnova

According to reference material, the rosy barbs do not have the same (fin nipping) traits as the Tigers. Off course reference material has been known to be wrong from time to time.

To see my tank setup and future plans check My Tank

---------------------------------------

QUOTE
3 x Siamese Fighters (18 cm / 7")


Not a good idea?!?!?!?! Put them together and you'll be left with just one.

(unless you have 2 females and 1 male but even then they can still be aggressive to each other)

There is a Betta section, ask about these fish & combo you have there as well?

Also, since you do have a large tank i'll mention this: all the fish listed above (bar the fighters of course) do best when in a shoal with a minimum of 6 individuals, i.e.

>=6 x Corydoras Catfish Bronze (24cm / 9.5")
>=6 x Corydoras Catfish Panda (24cm / 9.5 ")
>=6 x Clown Loach (52cm / 20.5")

etc

I would definately not put more than one male siamese fighter in one tank. However, the siamese fighters are not really my choice, but I did say "I Do" to this woman...
I dont really think they will fit in that nicely with the scheme of the tank. Will take some persuasion to convince the wife otherwise though...

As for the groups of 6. You are actually right there. I guess I was a bit worried about overstocking. But then I will rather remove a species and up the numbers of the remaining groups to 6.

Thanx for the advice!!

 

[Underwurlde]

IMHO, get one. You won't be disappointed. I said 'I do' to my wife as well (on BOTH occations if u get my drift ).

Anyway, why do I recommend one?
...Because they are the most beautiful of fish. Quite stunning under the right lighting conditions.
Also my Betta has the best personality of all my fish - he is a nosey little bugger. (& he just loves water changes).
...Becasue they are happiest on their own and therefore won't impact on your inchage - (an even happier wife then LOL).
...Becasue they are long lived.

Only drawback with keeping one in a community tank is that it does slightly narrow your choice for other fish - i.e. no fin nippers and nothing too 'showy' that could resemble another Fighter(e.g. guppies)

Andy

 

[DarkEntity]

If you have 3 Betta, please tell me its 3 females. If it is then you still dont have enough, you should have 5 min. If on the other hand you have 3 males then please remove 2 of them.

 

[dwarfgourami]

This is where you can really impress your wife by buying her a 5 gallon betta tank all of her own for Christmas! There will be advantages from the betta's point of view- the current is likely to be less strong than in the big tank, there will be a more manageable territory to patrol, and IMO rosy barbs are a bit boisterous to make good betta companions, they might stress him out a bit. Danios and swordtails are also fast and zippy and can nip.

 

[kev350d]

If you have 3 Betta, please tell me its 3 females. If it is then you still dont have enough, you should have 5 min. If on the other hand you have 3 males then please remove 2 of them.

He doesnt have any yet he is simply running stocking suggestions past the forum (and it has been pointed out about the issue of more than one male beta (fighter). I think your tank will look a hive of activity once stocked and as you said in your previous post will be stocked at a steady rate as not to upset the chemistry.

Mine hasnt been set up long and i learnt my 1st most important lesson, get a quarantine tank and use it, trying to treat 350L of water is not only expensive but a big headache hoping everything goes ok for the other residents, The clown loaches i bought looked 110% healthy but 24hrs later they were covered in ich when i went back to the lfs their tanks were also shown signs of it so although the lfs tanks look clean and healthy there's nothing to say something isnt brewing in there waiting to raise its ugly head in your tank, had i used a quarantine tank my headache and wallet would have been saved. Ive learnt my mistake and went and purchased a 60L for this purpose.

Best of luck stocking your tank and i would love to see it in 2 month from now when the fish have set up residence and your plants have took hold.

 

[Mikaila31]

Bottom dwellers
4 x Corydoras Catfish Bronze (24cm / 9.5")
4 x Corydoras Catfish Panda (24cm / 9.5 ")
4 x Clown Loach (52cm / 20.5")

Also Clown Loaches get to be around 12" fully grown.

Good luck
Mikaila31

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Clown loaches will get big, but they do grow slowly enough that many people can get away with keeping them for years on end in a smaller tank, myself included. I have had four of them for over a year and they have only grown about an inch and a half or so.

IMHO, depending on the 'foot print' of the tank (the amount of area of the bottom glass of your tank), you do not want to over load on bottom dwelling or feeding fish since it may get hard to feed them properly without having to over feed. Clown loaches especially are 'micro-eaters', meaning they eat very small amounts but at a lot of times throughout the day. This makes them great for 'cleaning' up detrius or food that gets down the substrate. Having too many bottom dwellers is somewhat overkill and can cause you problems. Just something to consider.

Without trying to beat the dead horse even more on the betta fish, you should not keep more than one male in one tank AND if you are keeping a male and females together, you should seperate them except for a couple of hours when wanting to breed them. The male will be relentless in his persuit of the females, which usually ends in a stressed out, sick, diseased, or dead fish. As well, many people have reported that betta fish do not do well in larger tanks and can acutally be stressed by having too much room. It is their natural habitat to live in small bodies of water without many other active fish. Again, just something to think about. Maybe a small betta tank is a good idea for your wife (I have one as well, so I completely understand what you need to do) or you can further research the betta fish (there are MANY sites on them) and point out their needs to her.

And yes, not ALL barbs are fin nippers and to the best of my knowledge, Tiger Barbs are the worst of any barb as far as this behavior is concerned. However, I agree with being leery about the gouramis at least a little bit since they can be semi-aggressive just as the tiger barb is commonly refferred to as being.

Also, so you know (I just read a great article on the subject), the difference between schoaling fish and schooling fish is that schooling fish will most always travel together and in the same direction, a schoaling fish is a group of fish that will stick together at most times, but each will travel in their own direction. This will help you out a little bit to determine what type of groups you would like to have in your tank. Too many schools of different fish in a tank can be a problem though since there is not always enough room for schools to pass each other and what not, so when wanting to stock a tank with different groups of fish, schoaling fish are better in some regards.

 

[STRiDER]

Ok...

I've listened, I've read up, and almost gave up (just kidding)

Here is the revised proposal!

Bottom Feeders and Algae Eaters
6 x Corydoris Catfish Bronze (have 2 already)
6 x Corydoris Catfish Panda
6 x Coolie Loach
2 x Golden Nugget Loach
6 x Dwarf Otocinclus (have 6 already)

Shoals
24 x Neon Tetra (have 16 already)
8 x Rosie Barb
18 x Zebra Danio

Signature Fish
3 x Swordtail
3 x Red rainbowfish
3 x Dwarf Gourami

I'm pretty sure this will not be the final draught

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

Maybe I am reading this wrong, but did you mean 'gold nugget pleco' instead of gold nugget loach? If so, I would really reconsider the GN pleco because of their potential size of 14 or so inches and the fact that they are massive waste producers.

Again, I just want to reiterate my previous comments on the idea of having so many bottom dwelling fish. I do realize that 82 gallons is a lot of water in a pretty large tank, but it is not so large that having tons and tons of bottom dwelling fish is perfectly acceptable. Depending on if your tank is a 'long" or a "tall" will really decide how many bottom dwelling fish you can think of keeping happy at one time.

As for the schoaling thing, I agree with the notion that 6 of one species of fish is an ok number, however I do not think you need 6 of each type of cory cat nor do I think that you absolutely have to have any more than four of each loach on your list. While it is very true that clown loaches are slow growing, they will eventually become a problem as far as their size down the road. Just as important as that is the fact that clown loaches can defend themselves and attack other fish with their little spike that is just under their eyes so they could damage the other bottom dwellers if things are too crowded.

When I say that you may be thinking about stocking with too many bottom dwellers, it is important to know that I mean fish who almost never leave contact with the substrate. You will know if you have a stocking or compatability issue when you notice any of your cory cats or loaches spending a lot of time swimming up and above the substrate. This does occur, but not that often based upon my experience with clown loaches.

So, I hope you know that I am not saying this will absolutely end in disaster, but these are just things to consider now and later on once you are all stocked up and are seeing problems.

 

[STRiDER]

Thanks Tommy

Sorry, you're right - its a Golden Nugget Plec
According to my reference material, the adult size of the Golden Nugget Plec is 10 cm (4"). I will however definitely research this fully before adding them.

As for the amount of bottom dwellers here goes with my reasoning:

1. I did update my list

Bottom Feeders and Algae Eaters
6 x Corydoris Catfish Bronze (have 2 already)
6 x Corydoris Catfish Panda
6 x Coolie Loach
2 x Golden Nugget Loach
6 x Dwarf Otocinclus (have 6 already)

No more clown loaches

2. The remaining fish are a lot smaller (Cats 2.5", Ottocinclus 1.5", Coolie Loach 4")
(I will put the Golden Nugget Plec on Standby till I know exactly its size)

3. The Ottos does not stick to the substrate all the time, they seem to love the plants, bogwood and glass as well.

However, you definitely have a point!!
I will stock the bottom dwellers in parts and see what happens.

Here's the plan:

1. Up the Bronze Cats to 6 next week.
2. Introduce 6 Panda cats the week after.
3. Check compatibility between the 12 Cats and Ottos.
4. Only if things look good will I introduce the Coolie Loaches and maybe next year somewhere the Golden Nugget Plecs.

Thanks for the inputs!

 

[Tommy Gunnz]

http/www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_nugget.php

^^^Max size for golden nugget pleco = 35cm

I always try to follow the 'rule of three' when it comes to aquatic questions and info...if you can find the same peice of information from three completely unrelated sources (that are relatively trustworthy), you can believe it. I know it is hard at times to find good information all the time on the net. I like to use Dr. Foster's and Smith's website (http/www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Shop.cfm?N=2004). They are an online store that gives out A LOT of information about fish, inverts, and plants on their webpages.

I think your plan to stock slowly is good. I guess my thinking is that if you want to have multiple types of cory cats, then you can just get three Bronze and three Pandas. Maybe stocking that way will help you see if your plan will work and still ensure that you have a few of each kind that you like. Know what I mean? It is ALWAYS best to stock slower rather than just put bunches of fish in all at once. I know that you dont seem to want to do that, but I know as well that many LFS will sell fish at a discount if you are buying a certain number (for example, a molly may cost 1.99, but you can buy four of them for 6.00) so dont get jumpy. If the sale is only temporary, then ask if you can pay for them and have them held for a couple days.

 

[ItsMyThing]

We have a 55 gal tank (my husband's baby), and we had 4 clown loaches. We bought these fish over 5 years ago and now there are 2 left. My point is that although they were fun to watch and very pretty at first, the two that are left do nothing but dig up plants. They are an easy 2 - 3 inches long, and what was once beautiful colorations have faded to very muddy and ugly.