It's Been A While

I ain't gonna get in to pointless debates with you mate, whats the point in you posting this anyway? to annoy people?
 
You are more than welcome to the conversation, as this is the purpose of a forum. I do not consider these fish as disposable in the effect that I will not care for them. I see them as disposable only in the terms that they are temporary. That doesn't mean that I will not care for them any less than I would a normal pet, it just means that I am caring for their IMMEDIATE needs and not their long term needs. I do understand and have seen many times where people do treat them as more than just disposable, by disregarding the health of the fish. This is something I condemn and would not ever do.

Your dedication to your fish is admirable. I've done things similarly when the power went out and the tank was overstocked with fry until I had a good opportunity to cull them and there was not enough oxygen in the tank so I used some oxygen pills and was constantly getting fresh, cold (prefferably warm, but cold water colds more oxygen) water into the tank constantly.

I guess this is where we disagree, it's my personal opinion animals should only be bought with continual care. Like when people buy a fish and figure, "I'll keep it till it out grows the tank, then give it to the petstore!" That just irks me. But we're all entitled to our own opinions.


I ain't gonna get in to pointless debates with you mate, whats the point in you posting this anyway? to annoy people?

I think this is a bit uncalled for. As already stated by OP, this is an open, public forum. They can post whatever they want, and it's your choice to view or respond it. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum interested in the prospect kribensis12 is proposing. It just may not be you. This forum has many different views, from many different people. This, is one of the major reasons forums are so helpful.
 
AnimalHouse36:
I completely understand where you are coming from. If I weren't in the situation I am in currently, I would agree with you but now being in this situation I do believe there should be some leeway to this point of view. That's just my OP.

GS1981:
Why did I post this? To let everyone know I was back after a break of fish keeping, to show off some cool (although common) fish I picked up. I think it's unfair to say/imply that my post annoys people when have spent 95% percent of your posting time on here being disrespectful. I could even turn the question back on you if I wanted to. If you aren't happy with what I am doing then move on and leave it at that. Thank you.
 
Nobody is going to agree with what you are doing, they are pets and if thats how you want to treat your pets....thats up to you.

You might not be correct with that assumption. If it werenā€™t for breeders who rotated out breeding stock, switching & matching mates you would have less a chance of some of the more unique strains in the hobby being available. The red spotted severum in your sig has this behind it, being line bred from gold sevs. Selective breeding such as this has also resulted in the pink con in your sig, so you are indirectly involved with this sort of fishkeeping by the fish you keep, as is most anyone who keeps fish for any length of time. You just didnā€™t know this, now you do.

Iā€™ll bet youā€™d be really upset with Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine, and their Breeders Challenge competition, if you were familiar with that. The winner successfully bred 169 species in a year, with no success with about 50 other species. If you think you know more about the welfare of tropical fish than Mike Hellweg Iā€™d be more than happy to provide you with his contact information, though it is easily available online. I can hook you up with the runner up as well; he fell several species short of winning.

Youā€™ll also want to avoid aquarium societies & their Breeders Award programs, they do much the same, on a smaller scale. The fish you keep are the results of all of this.

I ain't gonna get in to pointless debates with you mate, whats the point in you posting this anyway? to annoy people?

No, I believe his point is that no matter how much you are forced to downsize you can still keep breeding skills sharp. Without breeders who have a persistent attitude towards breeding youā€™d have a gold sev & a blue con in your sig.
 
I got no problem with breeding fish, i have a problem with him keeping Convicts in a 10g and letting them eat there young for food.
 
You get two sides of the coin, some ppl arenā€™t happy with others keeping fish in tanks anything less then 6-8 times the length of the fish and 2-3 times the width of the fish, if everyone followed these rules, hardly any of us would be keeping, for example Oscars. Other people are just happy keeping the fish they want.

Kribensis12 has stated that this is only temporary, hopefully this is the case, although it would have been more of a non-issue if for example, breeding dwarf cichlids. Obviously we canā€™t replicate nature, these fish are confined to tanks, I agree with GS1981 in that 10g is too small for a pair of convicts and the point needs to be made, or youā€™ll get other people with far less experience then Kribensis12 citing that as the reason they did the same.

When it comes to breeding New Worlds, Iā€™ve noticed females grow slower, males grow at a more ā€˜normalā€™ rate.
 
Many people breed cons as a food source for other fish. Livebearers are known for eating their young, not any different here as I see it.

The reason for mentioning that article is that Iā€™m sure the aquarists involved used what would be considered undersized tanks for some of the species involved. Long ago when I bred cons I did much the same, in a 20 high. More than enough room for a young pair & fry, Iā€™m sure some got eaten, traded in fry & parents for some large blocks of open cell sponge. ATM I have a 2ā€ JD in a 15 high, heā€™ll get moved when needed. Back when tanks had metal frames & slate bottoms angels were commonly bred in 10 gallon tanks, due to the cost of larger aquariums. These days a 20 or 29 is considered standard for a breeding pair of angels, though youā€™ll find people of the thought that angel pairs need a 40 gallon 4 foot tank. In 10 years youā€™ll be hearing of people thinking a pair of angels needs a 150 gallon tank at this rate. Regardless, you can still breed a young pair in a 10 gallon, angels or cons.

youā€™ll get other people with far less experience then Kribensis12 citing that as the reason they did the same.

And now I guess youā€™ll have people thinking they can keep a JD in a 15 gallon tank, because thatā€™s what I have going on ATM. Youā€™ll always have people who jump into aquatics, or most anything for that matter, with little to no experience, and get themselves in a jam. We see it here all the time, and do our best to turn that around. What a beginner does as opposed to what someone with more experience does is often worlds apart, and is the reason I rarely offer stocking information unless I have a real good idea of the capabilities & experience of the person asking.
 
Well, on topic here, do you have any pictures of the fry yet? I'm interested to see some calico convicts.
 
Tolak is Kribensis12 your friend? I'm allowed on a public forum to disagree with what i think is wrong.

Hell i have changed my mind, i might keep a Silver Arowana and a Red Tailed Cat Fish in a 10g for 6 months :p :)
 
I've known kribs for a while, have run into him on several occasions when I travel down south to auctions, so sure, you could say he's my friend. I run into plenty of other members in my travels around the Midwest, auctions & swaps, other club related events, so I guess all those people would be my friends as well. There's countless members here who I've never met in person, and consider friends.

That being the case, I do have a good idea as to what he knows, and is capable of, resources he has access to, as well as who he hangs around with down there concerning other aquarists involved with the clubs down there. There's other club members down there that are forum members here, I promote the forum to clubs, and clubs to forum members.

In a different case, perhaps involving someone with less knowledge, or someone who I was unsure of their capabilities I would agree with you, and you certainly are allowed to disagree with me or anyone else here. That is why this forum exists, to share information, discuss things such as stocking, and disagreeing is fine as long as it is in an agreeable manner. In the long run everyone learns something, hopefully, and we all progress in our abilities as aquarists.

As far as that aro & cat, you'll be looking at a 20 long before your 6 months are up. :) My little JD is going to be a solo act in a 72 gallon in less time than that.
 
Well, on topic here, do you have any pictures of the fry yet? I'm interested to see some calico convicts.

The fry are literally so close to free swimming I can taste it. I will have a picture up as soon as they get there. To make note of, they wont start to actually show much of their true color until 3-4 weeks in and odds are that they won't make it much longer than that unless I decide to raise the fry away from the parents.
 
youā€™ll get other people with far less experience then Kribensis12 citing that as the reason they did the same.

And now I guess youā€™ll have people thinking they can keep a JD in a 15 gallon tank, because thatā€™s what I have going on ATM. Youā€™ll always have people who jump into aquatics, or most anything for that matter, with little to no experience, and get themselves in a jam. We see it here all the time, and do our best to turn that around. What a beginner does as opposed to what someone with more experience does is often worlds apart, and is the reason I rarely offer stocking information unless I have a real good idea of the capabilities & experience of the person asking.

I'd rather search through the forum for answers from the past rather than repeat post a question, Iā€™m guessing there are many members/guests out there who do the same, for this reason I think itā€™s forum members responsibility to ask the obvious questions in the relevant threads and express what they think is right/wrong in certain situations.
 
Here are some pics of the fry. I'm really impressed with my phones camera:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68974782@N06/6344813295/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68974782@N06/6344812389/in/photostream

I wish I could put the actual photos on here but I think my campus is blocking the photobucket website is fragmented and I can only use flickr and I can't find a IMG code anywhere.
 
Here are some pics of the fry. I'm really impressed with my phones camera:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68974782@N06/6344813295/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68974782@N06/6344812389/in/photostream

I wish I could put the actual photos on here but I think my campus is blocking the photobucket website is fragmented and I can only use flickr and I can't find a IMG code anywhere.
why not type [ img ] pic link [ /img ] its not that hard
 

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