Is This Tank Overcrowded?

[fish_tank0311]

Would 22 neon tetras, 4 small angel fish (only 4-5cm long) and 1 blue gourami be overcrowded in a 71 litre, i think about 18-19 gallon tank? I no the angels get big and stuff. But will this be ok? Will the nitrates and ammonias get too high? Will more diseases come more often?

 

[VaegaVic]

Yes it will be overcrowded. Purely and simply because of the Angels.
You already know they get big, why would you be daft enough to put them in anyway?
They could also eat the neons and be picked on by the gourami.

 

[fish_tank0311]

I would later move the angels to a 4 foot but for NOW im talking.

 

[Wills]

How big is the blue gourami as that is an other 5 inch fish. And when you say you will move the angels over later, at what size will you move them and how long away is it? I think it could work for a few weeks maybe but it will be very crowded especially with a big school like that in there. If you left it 2 months or so they will get stunted and you will run into problems with disease and as with all cichlids if the angels take a disliking to each other (which can happen when they are young) there is not a lot of room to really settle issues in.

Also do you have the 4 foot tank now? Its always better to upgrade then get the fish rather than get the fish then upgrade.

 

[Chris001]

I have a 120 litre/ 31.2 Litre tank. I have a 12cm silver shark, 5-2/3cm neons, 2-6cm bulldog plecos and 2- 6cm clown loaches. I have had them for about 5 monthes and they all seem to be settled in.
(so I must be doing somthing right)

My question is can I put another Silver shark in or will it be over crowded.
The shark I have looks lonely . He is abit scared when I go to the tank and sometimes freaks out and slams against the side of the tank, maybe a friend might help.

any answers would be helpful.

 

[VaegaVic]

I would later move the angels to a 4 foot but for NOW im talking.

Well why didn't you say so?
If it's for NOW, the answer is still no.
Do what's better for your fish rather than your ego.

It just simply wont work, they'll most likely fight and attack the other fish out of stress. If you want to kill some perfectly lovely angels, go ahead.

 

[Squid]

I would later move the angels to a 4 foot but for NOW im talking.

Well why didn't you say so?
If it's for NOW, the answer is still no.
Do what's better for your fish rather than your ego.

It just simply wont work, they'll most likely fight and attack the other fish out of stress. If you want to kill some perfectly lovely angels, go ahead.

Probably a bit of an aggressive way to say it, but probably the right answer too.

It's not really big enough for angels. With four angels, there may be the odd bit of aggression, and with the gourami in there too, there probably wouldn't be enough places for an attacked fish to escape for a while.

I'm less worried about the neons in the Angels when they are that size. If introduced before the angels and the angels are small, many people have found that the angels won't see them as food and will grow up with them in the tank.

I would look for a smaller, but still as impressive centre piece fish.

The problem with buying fish that are going to need a bigger home, is that people situations often change, and the bigger home never comes. I don't know your situation, and i'm not a future teller, so I will reserve judgement. However, I have seen this go wrong a few times. All with the best intentions in the first place.

Cheers,
Squid

 

[Squid]

I have a 120 litre/ 31.2 Litre tank. I have a 12cm silver shark, 5-2/3cm neons, 2-6cm bulldog plecos and 2- 6cm clown loaches. I have had them for about 5 monthes and they all seem to be settled in.
(so I must be doing somthing right)

My question is can I put another Silver shark in or will it be over crowded.
The shark I have looks lonely . He is abit scared when I go to the tank and sometimes freaks out and slams against the side of the tank, maybe a friend might help.

any answers would be helpful.

Chris, if I were you I would stick this in a new thread to catch the attention of people who know more about the sharks than me. might get a bit lost in here.

Unfortunately you may get a number of people warning you that the Clown Loaches will get a bit big for that tank. Let's hope they say it nicely

Welcome to the forum though.!

 

[Assaye]

Would 22 neon tetras, 4 small angel fish (only 4-5cm long) and 1 blue gourami be overcrowded in a 71 litre, i think about 18-19 gallon tank? I no the angels get big and stuff. But will this be ok? Will the nitrates and ammonias get too high? Will more diseases come more often?

I wouldn't do it. If you already have the larger tank, why not put them straight in? Are you using the smaller tank as a grow out? If you do want to grow them out in a smaller tank to save them being bullied, you are best off not putting a huge stack of other fish with them. The more fish, the more stress, the more likely they are to get sick or even not grow properly.

If you don't already have the 4 foot tank, don't even think of getting the angels until you do. What happens if you can't afford that bigger tank later on, or if you have to move house and can't fit it in . . . anything could happen.

Also, neons are angel food. It's a risk, whatever people say about them "growing up together".

Blue gouramis need more space than that, IMO.

Finally - 22 neons? I'm worried about having 10 in my 65 litre, along with 5 female bettas and 3 corys. That's just too many fish.

I have a 120 litre/ 31.2 Litre tank. I have a 12cm silver shark, 5-2/3cm neons, 2-6cm bulldog plecos and 2- 6cm clown loaches. I have had them for about 5 monthes and they all seem to be settled in.
(so I must be doing somthing right)

My question is can I put another Silver shark in or will it be over crowded.
The shark I have looks lonely . He is abit scared when I go to the tank and sometimes freaks out and slams against the side of the tank, maybe a friend might help.

any answers would be helpful.

Silver sharks get to over a foot long so you really, really don't want to be getting another one. Clown loaches also get to a foot or more. These fish need 6 foot long tanks. Yes, they should be kept in groups but unless you can provide them with a proper tank for their adult size, you should be rehoming your current ones not getting more.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news

 

[fish_tank0311]

I would later move the angels to a 4 foot but for NOW im talking.

Well why didn't you say so?
If it's for NOW, the answer is still no.
Do what's better for your fish rather than your ego.

It just simply wont work, they'll most likely fight and attack the other fish out of stress. If you want to kill some perfectly lovely angels, go ahead.

Ego?.... Right....... Well yes i have the 4 foot now and its running with a couple fish. The gourami is like 3-4 cm long. 22 neons is fine, no diseases, nothing...

 

[Wills]

In defense of Vegavic I did think that when you replied Im talking about NOW there was no point saying anything. I very much get the impression that you will go ahead with this regardless personally I think it wont work as I said other than for a few weeks.

 

[Squid]

In defense of Vegavic I did think that when you replied Im talking about NOW there was no point saying anything. I very much get the impression that you will go ahead with this regardless personally I think it wont work as I said other than for a few weeks.

Agreed to an extent Wills. It is easy to make the assumptions that you have, and you may well be right. However, if we are to keep this a "friendly" forum as it is suggested, being aggressive in that way can have a detremental effect. Even if you get the feel that person will not accept the advice, saying it in an aggressive manner often increases the chances of that advice having NO affect!


However, the response of

The gourami is like 3-4 cm long. 22 neons is fine, no diseases, nothing...

does sound like it is already done.. or.. you are making assumptions based upon no fact. so which is it?

I'm just trying to be balanced here.

Squid

 

[drobbyb]

Just to back up what the others have been saying, I agree with most of the advice given. Some of it could have been presented better, but people have different personalities and they were still trying to help, but that's no excuse to be rude.

Lets break it down a bit. The angels, being a truly majestic fish, require a few thngs to grow and do well. They need a tank that is at least 18 inches tall, now thats 18 inches measured from the top of your gravel to the top of your waterline. It's a basic need for adult angels. Technically speaking, you could in fact get away with a smaller tank for a while, and upgrade the tank later. That's great and all, but most people's situation changes and the first thing that gets looked over is the upgrade since it's not a critical need of survival for humans. What that means is the money for the new fishtank and filter, substrate, etc usually gets used to make rent or other necessary bills. I've been as victim of this myself and can speak from personal experience. That's just how it is.

It's better to have a tank that's large enough to house adult angels, even if the angels you buy are very small, as they will grow into the tank and that growth will be healthy.

On to the silver sharks: Silver sharks are very pretty fish that are extremely popular. They are sold in the 3 to 4 inch range and sold to people with too small tanks to house them properly. They need a tank at least 6 foot long, and they need to be kept in groups of 3 or more with 6 being preferable. They are a slow growing fish, so it takes a bit of time for them to reach their adult size. LFS love to sell them to people with less than adequate tanks because they like to make money. You have to be shrewd when buying fish, and research before you walk into the store is key. They are simply one of the most abused fish in the hobby because of their requirements and the lack of knowledge on the staff's part.

On to the clown loaches: Beautiful fish with great personalities. Unfortunately their requirements are more than what the LFS will tell you. These guys can reach a length of 12 inches and also have some girth. Add to that that they need to be in groups makes their minimum size a lot larger than what you might think. A 75 gallon tank would be acceptable house some clown loaches. These guys get big, albeit at a slow rate. These fish are also among the top abused types of fish. They are attractive, active and everything that a tropical fish keeper is looking for. But the same applies about angels and silver sharks: They should be kept (even when small) in a suitable tank. If you have the suitable tank already, and want to use another tank to grow them out, you would be fine, but only if you have a permanent enclosure already. I've found it best to grow them out in the full size enclosure. It just makes things easier and is less stress on the fish.


So in short, plans to upgrade usually fall through, and it's best to wait until you have the upgrade to buy the fish to go in it.

 

[fish_tank0311]

I havnt already done it. And all, when i said NOW, i didnt mean it like that. I am just trying to be friendly i didnt mean it how you all took it. and no i havnt already done it. Im just wondering.

And im not going to go ahead, because my dad is too controlling, and wont let me do anything unless he thinks its a 100% wonderful idea. And if anyone feels like saying "well dont bother posting on the forum, just ask your dad", im just looking for 2nd opinions.

 

[drobbyb]

Than that is a great thing! I wasn't trying to preach you you on the subject, but I like to give as much information as possible so that you can make an informed decsion, saving you lots of money and heartache in the long run.

I think that you are being incredibly responsible doing the research first. I am willing to bet that you will make one heck of a fishkeeper. You seem to have the right idea and attitude to go with it (and you will need both of those skills.) Now you just have to deal with the less than knowledgeable LFS employees (not all of them, but most) and the waiting game.

However it turns out for you, I wish you the very best of luck!