Is it wrong to keep wild-caught fish?

[annka5]

Plenty of people don't provide a good environment for fish, wild caught or otherwise, native or not. This is not fair on the fish, and it being tank-bred/wild-caught/native/non-native makes no difference to that IMO.
Am deliberately leaving specific requirements aside (feeding, chemistry, etc) as I don't think they impact on that.
Personally, I think it is better to buy tank-bred fish where possible, becuase of the potential ecological damage taking fish from the wild can cause; alternatively keeping fish that are not from a relatviely small area - i.e. likely to be more numerous and less likely to become endangered - it's better a species never becomes endangered at all, rather than us taking what we will until a species has to be protected.
HOWEVER, it isn't a very practical or "do-able" solution in most cases.

 

[chishnfips]

I think it is wrong, but hey I'll get over it.

 

[OohFeeshy]

A lot of the fish you buy are wild caught. Things like cardinal tetras, khulis etc, things that are very hard to breed in captivity are wild caught. A small percentage are bred, but not a great deal. Marine fish are almost all wild caught, live rock comes from the ocean (most of the time)..... You can't advoid wild caughts entirely.

 

[Synirr]

A lot of the fish you buy are wild caught. Things like cardinal tetras, khulis etc, things that are very hard to breed in captivity are wild caught. A small percentage are bred, but not a great deal. Marine fish are almost all wild caught, live rock comes from the ocean (most of the time)..... You can't advoid wild caughts entirely.

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A lot of people aren't aware of this, I don't think, so it's a good thing to point out. My LFS has a pretty good saltwater selection, and whenever they get in a fish that was tank raised and bred they label it as such. I've never seen more than two tank-bred saltwater fish in the store at one time.

 

[RandomWiktor]

As a wildlife rehabilitator, I'm idealogically opposed with the idea of catching and keeping wild fish, particularly species who are difficult to maintain captive (ie. hypersensitive, overly shy, huge), or endangered in the wild. So far as I am concerned, only "domesticated" strains of a few species that we've been captive breeding for years should be on the market. I'm honestly, despite being here, not fond on fishkeeping in general, since I see too many people who refuse to offer quality care as the animals are regarded as decorations instead of living beings. That, and the industry itself involves astronomical death tolls and suffering compared to other pet animal industries; if you walked into a pet store and saw as many sick and dead parakeets or ferrets in a cage as you see sick and dead fish in store tanks, the place would be shut down in days. I think until society grows more respect for fish, I will probably a bit grumpy about the hobby in general.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

This is the way i see things on wild caught fish;

Bad things;
a. You a fish living in a 10,000gallon lake. Then you get netted out and cooped up in a 20gal tank. All that wonderful space and hundreds of your own kind are gone, and the chances that the tank conditions are going to be good enough to breed in are slim- being that the sex drive is the most powerful drive in all living creatures, its a pretty miserable existance when you are forced to be a fish nun/monk for the rest of your life in a tiny cell praying to fish god for salvation.
b. The majority of wild fish have very varied diets and interesting places to see and go to in their wild habitats, a fish flake diet(if you ever adjust to it in time) is not going to make you very thrilled or in high health for the rest of your life.
c. With your sex life gone, you could be an endangered species(usually because people havn't figured out how to breed you in captivity and are over fishing your kind) and not only is your place in the food chain in your natural habitat more vital than ever when you an endangered, being cooped up in a small tank for the rest of your life when you could potentialy breed is going to be doing your species no good.
d. In captivity, you are at the mercy of your owner- if you are very lucky you may make it into the catagory of fish owners you deeply care for their fish and will do anything for the benefit of your health and happyness and have a matured tank with enough space/gallons to put you in- but in the more likely event you end up in a cycling overstocked tank with bad water quality you simply can't cope with. Being with so many other fish from all over the world the chances of encountering deseases your kind has never built any immunity to is increased along with the chances of meeting fish that you have no defence against, physical or social.
e. Ouch! Why can't i swim any further?! Glass you say? This may take a while to stop banging your head into somthing you can't see...
Heck! Somthings chasing me- a jellyfish! No, a fish net! fish net you say...? Ahhhhh! Hang on, all the water is draining out of my home! (Stress mode!!) Water change!??
Tank life has to be very stressful for a fish that was once free and never experienced anything like it....

Good points;
a. You get free meals on a regular daily basis, all you have to do is swim up and gobble at the right time- much better than starving for weeks on end working your fins off only to get a tiny krill or dead fly hey?
b. You don't have to worry about pedatory fish found naturally in your habitat anymore, then again, you might have to worry about predatory fish from the other side of the world your owner has stupidly put with you..
c. ...... .... ....Um...Any other good points for a wild fish being put into a tank...?

....
As far as i see it, wild fish are better off being wild unless you can give them more space than they need, have serious chances of at least being able to make their enviroment capable of being good enough to breed in(even if you don't breed them, i mean who wants to responsability of tons of baby mbu puffers?), giving them a varied diet, making sure the tank doesn't get deseased and making sure water quality and compatable fish stocking are excellent etc. But this is hardly the case for so many fish out there, i don't recommend wild caught fish for people i couldn't trust to do these things for sure....

 

[andywg]

As pointed out, a lot of common tropical fish are farm bred in the rivers or lakes they are from.

Also some of the fish, such as Cardinal tetras experience huge seasonal variations in numbers (it is estimated that when the dry season comes to the amazon millions of cardinals die each year) and a number of them are more than safe in number.

There is also the conservation part. A number of fish we don't know entirely how to breed, but through hobbyists exploits we learn more about breeding habits (even now, information on breeding BGKs is coming out of Australia). Should these fish become endangered then the knowledge is already there to start breeding programs. This is what is likely to happen with Zebra plecs if their habitat is flooded.

Also, living in the wild is not a case of a fish happily swimming around, eating and reproducing, there are predators out there and a lot of fish that live a number of years in our aquarium would never survive that long in the wild. The prime example is a coral reef. The way that the reefers keep them, they look like serene places with everything ticking along fine whereas, in the real world, a reef is a highly competitive place.

There are downsides to keeping wild fish, though most of these are to do with not giving the fish the correct conditions, and at that point I don't think it matters if it is wild caught or not, it's still not getting the treatment it deserves.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

For a fish that has lived most of its life in a lake/river/stream/pond/sea etc, tank life is very difficult to get accustomed to. Bala sharks often injure themselves banging into objects and the tank glass, many other fish fail to recognise fish flakes as food and starve to death before they get accustomed to them and some fish like clown loachs which have practically no immunity against deseases like whitespot die within days of contracting it even if medicated etc.
A wild fish should be treated just as fairly as an aquarium bred fish i agree, but wild fish find it so much more difficult adjusting to aquarium life do we realy need even more fish dying even more easily through the mistakes of us?
We the fish keepers can help people understand the breeding habits of certain fish but most fish that can be bred in normal aquarium conditions have already been done so- many fish require such things as RO water/filters and imitations of dry and wet seasons with increase in TDS and other things like mud banks to breed in and specifically sized caves etc...
If a people need to understand the breeding conditions for a particular species of fish, i say leave it to the experts- the general understanding of breeding most fish is put a male and female together and see what happens, but this is rarely the case. If you thought putting a couple of zebra plecs in a matured clean tank would be good enough enough for them to breed you'd be wrong and they'd most likely die of old age before tank conditions ever became suitable for breeding- i guess what i am trying to say is that most things required for breeding rare fish aern't readily available in every lfs and aern't nesarsary for keeping most aquarium fish alive so most people don't even think of picking them up and thus the fish in question chance of breeding is slim. But breeding wild fish is a whole different area of debate, heh.

 

[andywg]

If you thought putting a couple of zebra plecs in a matured clean tank would be good enough enough for them to breed you'd be wrong

That was never stated or inferred, but I shall assume you are using a general you rather than directing it at me in relation to my post.

The breeding habits of zebra plecs (particularly the breeding in captivity as the wild habitat looks likely to be imminently destroyed) have been observed quite extensively by hobbyists, and it is due to that that we know you need to get a colony and provide the relevant conditions (fast flowing water, various caves of the correct size etc.).

Also of interest would be seeing just how many fish of the age we purchase from the lfs actually would survive to adulthood in the wild.

I am not for a minute saying it is fine that anyone buys the animal and gives it the wrong conditions as it may have died in the wild at that age anyway, but again, a lot of people have this fairy tale image of all the spawn growing to adulthood -which just doesn't happen.

Your point about clowns and balas highlights my point about giving fish the right conditions. I have very little trouble with my balas trying to get out of the tank as they are now in a 150 gallon. It's all about having the right equipment and conditions to house the fish. It's only once you deviate from the necessary conditions that it becomes a problem.

Look at reefs. If it weren't for wild catching there would probably be only a couple of species other than clown fish available to the hobby, not to mention very few corals, though with fragging going on and some projects to grow coral and return it to the sea, the inital periods of wild catching could well help the wild habitat.

There are reasons not to wild catch for the hobby (population levels, damaging the ecosystem or biotope of that area) but I don't believe we do that much harm, certainly not if the catching is run responsibly (which is the big key)

andy

 

[CFC]

If it wasnt for wild caught fish there would be no fish keeping, shops just wouldnt be able to make enough money to stay open selling nothing but common livebearers, a handfull of barbs and a few species of Corydoras.
At least 70% of the fish in the hobby are wild caught and of the ones that aren't over half of these will have been farmed in netted of sections of river and are for all senses of the word still wild fish, i for one know that if i was unable to keep the fish i do then i would not bother keeping fish at all.

For those that dont like keeping wild caught fish i have some captive bred snakeheads that will be ready in a few months

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I admit i own some wild caught fish(most of them i didn't know were wild caught at first) but i know i can give the fish what they need and that is what is important about my ownership over my fish. This is a very large worldwide forum with many members, if you say one thing you say it to everyone who veiws this page- this forum influences many, old and young.
I am not strictly against or with keeping wild caught fish but if the wild caught fish could be bred in captivity i'd chose the captive bred ones over the wild ones any day. I guess what i am trying to do is make people think more about buying wild caught fish as many people seem to see little difference in the 2 apart from where they come from. I agree any fish whever it comes from or what it is must be looked after well, but wild caught fish do need a certain amount of extra care and cash in being kept in comparison to their tank bred reletives.
Some wild caught fish make great newb fish as their genes are still strong and not badly inbred like many tank bred fish today, but the majority are more fragil none the less. To say you think its right to keep wild caught fish could encourage others to leave their doubts over them and buy some, or to even not question the morality of their wild caught fish been kept in a tank.
I don't agree with many wild caught fish being sold in the fish trade while others i have no problems with, to say you totallly agree or not agree with wild caught fish is too big a generalisation for me/too vague a question. There are many areas of the debate to be explored, not only in what fish should be sold but also whom they sold too....And most of these issues end in a wish for more reliable and caring fish keepers...


ps: andywg i was making a general example and i was not directing my comments or referring to you in any way, sorry if i came across that way .

 

[Dwarfs]

Whats wrong with keeping wild fish that you can take good care of?

I met some sunfish over the summer in upstate new York and, this is true, they were begging me and my dad for food. We sat down next to the river because we had seen a sunny a few feet away, and then, 7 appeared right next to us We threw some grass into the water and they tried to eat it!

They would do great in captivity, I actually plan on catching a couple and housing them in an unheated tank in my basement in the future

If you don't like wild caught fish, don't keep fish. Many are wild caught, and the ones that weren't have wild ancestors. Being kept in an aquarium is a luxury , a constant food supply, clean water, no predators, and no parasites is ideal for any fish. The only problems are that the larger fish get taken into captivity, the schooling fish can't have humongous schools, and the delicate fish may not fair well. As long as we don't endanger any more fish to near extinction, bringing them into the hobby is great, and the only way to keep fishkeeping alive.

If wildcaught fish were banned, I would be left with almost no fish, and I would stop keeping fish because there would only be guppies, bettas, and other common boring fish

Fish don't really care where they are, as long as they have food, water, and no predators, they will be "happy", although i doubt that fish are intelligent enough to even have emotions or become attached to their homes

There's my opinion, don't hurt me

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Whats wrong with keeping wild fish that you can take good care of?

Nothing is wrong with keeping a any fish as long as its taken care of properly, you miss my point completely- and i believe there is more than keeping wild fish than

"Fish don't really care where they are, as long as they have food, water, and no predators, they will be "happy", although i doubt that fish are intelligent enough to even have emotions or become attached to their homes tongue2.gif"

as i described in my above posts..And emoticians and intelligence is a completely diffrent area of debate- none the less you shouldn't deprive a fish of an interesting/natural enviroment because you assume it to be stupid and emotionless.
In then that sense the fish is "guilty until proven inocent" than "innocent until proven guilty", what would you do if your common plec(example) was found to be more intelligent than your pet cat but you kept it in a tank with only a cave and a plant to stare at for the whole 30yrs+ of its life? What if you were that plec but couldn't speak and all you had to prove your intelligence was a cave and a plant and your mouth to do things with?
Even if you don't believe in fish having emotion or intelligence, its proven that the vast majority of fish are healthier and more active if they have an interesting tank to explore- so that at least is proof that fish do care for more than food, water and prederters.

 

[Dwarfs]

I see, when I typed I was thinking of the way I keep my fish, not the plain and unnatural look that newbies keep their fish in, and IMO, if fish were very intelligent, I think we'd notice

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Your average mog has less intelligence than a chicken- did you notice that?
Guppys for example have recently been disocovered to have complex social lives and be more intelligent than once granted for and were even featured in a bbc article;

http/news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3009170.stm

I think your defination of "intelligent" and "interesting" are the same thing and if its not rare its "boring"- i often hear people saying "oh my L...plec is so much more interesting than my boring guppys" when in fact all it does is sit there in a cave and occasionally come out for a poop or algae wafer, while the guppys are frantically swimming around with their complicated social lives, indentifying their owner from other humans, showing love by paying attention to their owner and always exploring places. I think i know who is the more intelligent fish here.

Say you had a rare fish like an arrowana, if it was sold in every single small and large lfs and every newb had one you wouldn't find it so interesting anymore and if guppys were as rare as arrowanas and had to be imported from the wild at costly prices im sure you would find them alot more interesting .

Fish are what you make them- you shouldn't need to have rare and wild fish just to keep you interested in the hobby. And its been proven everyday by scientists that everyday fish such as guppys have more and more intelligence- heck, scientists even say they are on an a evolutionly breakthrough in developing into a new species. So perhaps everyone else is noticing apart from you