Introduction... Help?

[Ragtagcurtis]

Firstly hello everyone, I'm Curtis, 23 and just re-entering the fish keeping hobby. Having had fish while I was growing up I've always thought they were amazing creations to watch but never actually had the responsibility of maintaining and caring for the little guys myself.

This all changed last Saturday when myself and the other half after weeks of debating, went down to the Holly Bush garden centre and came home with a Roma 125L, its accessories, gravel and a huge chunk of bogwood. Really excited as I'm sure you can imagine I spent Saturday night setting up the tank and blaming the girlfriend every time something didn't go as I thought it should (we are friends again now ). So here's the tank...

http/img291.imageshack.us/i/photozny.jpg/

So for the questions

I've been soaking the bogwood as instructed. The board at the shop said atleast 48 hours. I've soaked the wood 6 times in boiling water and since then left it in cold water, changing the water once a day. Is it now ready to go into the tank? (I notice that when in cold water it seems clear but when I boil the water it still turns brown...)

Secondly the garden centre, and my lfs (who is very well respected) said if I use nutrifin cycle and the water treatment I can add fish after 7 days. I'm waiting for my master test kit to arrive but after reading this forum don't trust the advice. However the dilemma is that the lfs is well known and respected. My family have always used them with know problems and have a great reputation throughout the West Midlands. Their called Sedgley Aquatics btw. Also my girlfriend paid half towards the tank and stands by what the "experts" say, believing 7 days must be fine. So if I am in a situation where fish are put in the tank over the next two weeks (I'm trying to compromise with the GF) how can I keep them alive?

Next, (sorry) I plan on planting the tank quite heavily, hoping to moss out the bottom so it has an almost grass effect and grow plant around and on the bogwood. How would I go about doing this, and what are the best plants for the task. Also I only have basic gravel in the tank, does this limit what I can grow?

One more (honestly...), As can be seen in the picture the heater is placed diagonally in the tank and it very noticable. I am planning on putting a scenery image on the back of the tank is there any other area of the tank where I could place (hide) the heater? I was told it has to be quite central and diagonal.

Sorry for so many questions but I hope to get alot of the planning and questions answered before the fish are in there and they are my responsibility. Any other advice would be more than welcome, images of planted tanks or even recommended stock would be fantastic. I am under a little pressure to have "colourful" fish so any ideas to help me out?

Thanks for taking the time to read (or skim) my post. I hope to become a helpful member of the community in time as my knowledge grows.

Ragtagcurtis

 

[menacer]

Firstly hello everyone, I'm Curtis, 23 and just re-entering the fish keeping hobby. Having had fish while I was growing up I've always thought they were amazing creations to watch but never actually had the responsibility of maintaining and caring for the little guys myself.

This all changed last Saturday when myself and the other half after weeks of debating, went down to the Holly Bush garden centre and came home with a Roma 125L, its accessories, gravel and a huge chunk of bogwood. Really excited as I'm sure you can imagine I spent Saturday night setting up the tank and blaming the girlfriend every time something didn't go as I thought it should (we are friends again now ). So here's the tank...

http/img291.imageshack.us/i/photozny.jpg/

So for the questions

I've been soaking the bogwood as instructed. The board at the shop said atleast 48 hours. I've soaked the wood 6 times in boiling water and since then left it in cold water, changing the water once a day. Is it now ready to go into the tank? (I notice that when in cold water it seems clear but when I boil the water it still turns brown...)

Secondly the garden centre, and my lfs (who is very well respected) said if I use nutrifin cycle and the water treatment I can add fish after 7 days. I'm waiting for my master test kit to arrive but after reading this forum don't trust the advice. However the dilemma is that the lfs is well known and respected. My family have always used them with know problems and have a great reputation throughout the West Midlands. Their called Sedgley Aquatics btw. Also my girlfriend paid half towards the tank and stands by what the "experts" say, believing 7 days must be fine. So if I am in a situation where fish are put in the tank over the next two weeks (I'm trying to compromise with the GF) how can I keep them alive?

Next, (sorry) I plan on planting the tank quite heavily, hoping to moss out the bottom so it has an almost grass effect and grow plant around and on the bogwood. How would I go about doing this, and what are the best plants for the task. Also I only have basic gravel in the tank, does this limit what I can grow?

One more (honestly...), As can be seen in the picture the heater is placed diagonally in the tank and it very noticable. I am planning on putting a scenery image on the back of the tank is there any other area of the tank where I could place (hide) the heater? I was told it has to be quite central and diagonal.

Sorry for so many questions but I hope to get alot of the planning and questions answered before the fish are in there and they are my responsibility. Any other advice would be more than welcome, images of planted tanks or even recommended stock would be fantastic. I am under a little pressure to have "colourful" fish so any ideas to help me out?

Thanks for taking the time to read (or skim) my post. I hope to become a helpful member of the community in time as my knowledge grows.

Ragtagcurtis

Hi i can only really answer your middle question, please look into the fishless cycle this cycle will take longer than 2 weeks (normally but it is the safest and most pleasent way for your fish to have a good life. Look at the fishless cycle post in the new fish forum section!

Fishless cycle This is the link toi the fishless cycle, you will see why it is very important.

May i also note that any products that are sold in fish shops that say they speed up the process for example (filter start) do not work! They can not keep the bacteria alive that is needed to convert the ammonia!

I hope that this answers your question and you take the right choice to go through a fishless cycle ( i am still doing mine ) but i know it will be worth it. You can take a look at my log of my fishless cycle here: Menacer's Fishless Cycle

p.s guppies are colourful here is a picture

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Thanks for taking the time for all that. I have looked into fishless cycling... It was my preferred method but the girlfriend in determined to put fish in and will not wait upto 6 weeks. So I'm reading up on fish in cycling.

Guppies are a good idea and certainly colourful, maybe a few would be a good idea but would like a couple of fish a little bigger as well. Growing up I had Betta fish tanks I only wish they were social fish

 

[BIG BAD BARRY]

The bogwood will be fine in cold water now. Boiling water will cause tannins to be released. In tank water temperature this will be far less .

If fish in cycling is the wauy you are going to go then please fully read the supporting info on this site. Wait until your test kit has arrived as you will need to test daily to keep ammonia and nitrite as close to 0ppm as possible and do regular water changes to prevent your fish from suffering permanent damage and/or death.

Hopefully someone can help you with the planting question.

Ideally the heater needs to be in the flow path of the water. Its fine where it is. The back is the best place really.

 

[Gilli]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

Firstly please consider a fishless cycle. This means growing the bacteria in your filter which will neutralise the toxins the fish produce to make it safe for them before adding the fish. 2 good reasons for this - its kinder for the fish and its much less work for you!

However if you are going to go ahead with a fish in cycle and you are prepared for all the hard work then read up on the link in this forum on it

cycling a tank with fish

Your bogwood may or may not sink straight away - some do some dont! If it doesnt you will need to weigh it down with some slate etc until it has soaked up enough water to stay down which will eventally happen. As for the brown water im afraid you will have to put up with that for weeks or months before it will all leach out and eventually the water will stay clear. You can buy pre soaked bogwood to get round both these problems either at your local fish shop or on Ebay! Added to this you can also get it with plants growing on it which always look good.

Most people that want to grow a 'carpet' of plants in the tank use mosses which is started off by tying onto plastic mesh nets. Again you can buy both of these to do yourself on Ebay and even buy them pre attatched to the pieces of mesh to put into your tank if you dont want to do it yourself.

As for the heater as long as you have an adequate one for your tank size and a good filtration system there is no reason why you cant put it diagonally on the side. i have a 4 foot 250L with a fibreglass rock background and my heater is on the side with no problems.

I would stick to easy hardy fish as a beginner - guppies, platies, White Clouds, Danios, Rasboras, swordtails and rainbowfish are all good colourful and active choices.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Thanks for the advice guys. Well I'm not sure if the bogwood was pre soaked the shop didn't indicate it. However while in a huge tub soaking as it is now, it has stayed at the bottom from the very start and in room temperature water nothing seems to soak out.

I'm going to read the fish in cycle information and print both of for the girlfriend. I'll put it to her that she will have to do all the extra work if she goes down this path.

One more question. If I start a fishless cycle is it possible to still plant the tank while this is happening that way I can console her with the knowledge that our scape it atleast starting???

 

[Gilli]

Well thats a hard one - some people say its better to cycle with plants and some say its best to put them in afterwards so i'll leave that one to the plant experts!

 

[moochy13]

warm tank water will still make your wood leach tannin, however if anything it is good for fish, and i dont think it affects cycling. i done a fish in cycle and addded 3 new bits of wood at the same time. due to the nature of fish in cycling, lots of water gets replaced reguarly, so if you dont like the brown affect of the tannin, you wont have to live with it for long because you remove the water so often. personally i liked it. fishless cycling doesnt remove as much water so often, so you will have to look at brown water for longer.

i would leave plants out, as they can absorb chemicals that you need to be testing for to determine if your filter is ready. how much of an affect they have i dont know. if your gf is intent on fish in cycling, let her buy the fish, and if they die tell her "told you so" . those bacteria in bottles are pants. where is the food and oxygen coming from to keep the bacteria in the bottle alive ?

to keep fish alive during fish in cycling its all about testing your water and changing it pretty much everyday. perhaps you should tell your gf if shes happy to go through the act of testing and changing water everyday she can have fish after a week. it might put her off the idea bearing in mind it could easily be 50%+ each change.

i would change to sand before you put water in. i know you may have just spent out on gravel, but theres a lot of threads on here of people asking "whats the best way to change to sand while my tanks full ?". its a predicament a lot of people find themselves in after reading up on sand and realising its benefits over gravel. most types of catfish also prefer it, and i guarantee at some point you will be reccommended to get cories, which love sand. i wont ever be using gravel again. theres a lot of threads talking up the benefits, in short its easier to clean, better for bottom dwellers, cheap (you can use argos playsand 3 quid for 20kg, once youve washed it through with water), and i think it looks infintely better. lots of fish like to dig aswell, and you can easily 'mould' sand into shapes you want.

dont know about the moss carpet, but i recently got rid of a moss covered bit of wood because the moss acted as nothing other than a magnet for crap. probably just the way my tank is setup though. the planted section of the forum will give more answers.

the heater, i think its a case of just being somewhere where the water is flowing past it well. ive got a juwel internal filter, in which the heater is contained within the box next to the filter. water is sucked past the heater then pumped out. as long as flow over the heater is good, it shouldnt matter. the main concern is getting warm water circulating round the whole tank. personally, clearly visible heaters plastered in the centre of the tank is a serious pet hate of mine, it ruins lots of good looking tanks.

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

warm tank water will still make your wood leach tannin, however if anything it is good for fish, and i dont think it affects cycling. i done a fish in cycle and addded 3 new bits of wood at the same time. due to the nature of fish in cycling, lots of water gets replaced reguarly, so if you dont like the brown affect of the tannin, you wont have to live with it for long because you remove the water so often. personally i liked it. fishless cycling doesnt remove as much water so often, so you will have to look at brown water for longer.

i would leave plants out, as they can absorb chemicals that you need to be testing for to determine if your filter is ready. how much of an affect they have i dont know. if your gf is intent on fish in cycling, let her buy the fish, and if they die tell her "told you so" . those bacteria in bottles are pants. where is the food and oxygen coming from to keep the bacteria in the bottle alive ?

to keep fish alive during fish in cycling its all about testing your water and changing it pretty much everyday. perhaps you should tell your gf if shes happy to go through the act of testing and changing water everyday she can have fish after a week. it might put her off the idea bearing in mind it could easily be 50%+ each change.

i would change to sand before you put water in. i know you may have just spent out on gravel, but theres a lot of threads on here of people asking "whats the best way to change to sand while my tanks full ?". its a predicament a lot of people find themselves in after reading up on sand and realising its benefits over gravel. most types of catfish also prefer it, and i guarantee at some point you will be reccommended to get cories, which love sand. i wont ever be using gravel again. theres a lot of threads talking up the benefits, in short its easier to clean, better for bottom dwellers, cheap (you can use argos playsand 3 quid for 20kg, once youve washed it through with water), and i think it looks infintely better. lots of fish like to dig aswell, and you can easily 'mould' sand into shapes you want.

Thanks or all that advice.

To be honest I do want sand now but water is already in the tank. What are the options to change to sand with water in the tank?

dont know about the moss carpet, but i recently got rid of a moss covered bit of wood because the moss acted as nothing other than a magnet for crap. probably just the way my tank is setup though. the planted section of the forum will give more answers.

the heater, i think its a case of just being somewhere where the water is flowing past it well. ive got a juwel internal filter, in which the heater is contained within the box next to the filter. water is sucked past the heater then pumped out. as long as flow over the heater is good, it shouldnt matter. the main concern is getting warm water circulating round the whole tank. personally, clearly visible heaters plastered in the centre of the tank is a serious pet hate of mine, it ruins lots of good looking tanks.

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Thanks for all the Info. If I want to change to sand now (my water is already in the tank) how would i go about it? would i have to drain and refill the entire tank?

 

[moochy13]

its the easiest way, definitely. it is possible with water in, but if you can easily empty the tank without having to uproot plants, move fish etc etc, emptying the tank will the hassle free option. if you get playsand, from argos or B&Q, or homebase i think somebody mentioned recently, you will need to wash it through before putting it in the tank. this involves half filling a bucket with sand and running a hose through it, agitating the sand, until the run off water is pretty much clear. the more time you spend cleaning the sand, the less time it will take for it to settle in the tank.

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

its the easiest way, definitely. it is possible with water in, but if you can easily empty the tank without having to uproot plants, move fish etc etc, emptying the tank will the hassle free option. if you get playsand, from argos or B&Q, or homebase i think somebody mentioned recently, you will need to wash it through before putting it in the tank. this involves half filling a bucket with sand and running a hose through it, agitating the sand, until the run off water is pretty much clear. the more time you spend cleaning the sand, the less time it will take for it to settle in the tank.

A thought for sure.... I just don't no if its worth removing all my gravel for now..... I was told in the shop its far harder to clean with sand and has no benefits??? plants grow easier in gravel for example, or os I was told.

Also I'm just about to start cycling the tank. Wouldn't changing all my water take me a step backwards?

 

[fluttermoth]

Sand is only harder to clean because you can't use a gravel syphon with it. In many ways it's easier with sand as the dirt and crud just sits on top. With gravel all that stuff sinks down into the spaces between the gravel so it can fester out of sight...

99% of the bateria live in your filter anyway, so changing all the water won't affect your cycle in any way. If you want sand you'll be far, far better off changing it now than trying to do it later when you've got fish in!

 

[Ragtagcurtis]

Sand is only harder to clean because you can't use a gravel syphon with it. In many ways it's easier with sand as the dirt and crud just sits on top. With gravel all that stuff sinks down into the spaces between the gravel so it can fester out of sight...

99% of the bateria live in your filter anyway, so changing all the water won't affect your cycle in any way. If you want sand you'll be far, far better off changing it now than trying to do it later when you've got fish in!

Thanks, I may go down to Argos tomorrow

Although I've just checked out the sand and it comes out quite dark looking. How/where do you get that beautiful white looking sand?
how much would i need for a 125L tank in KG? and how do you clean it?

Finally will washing the sand in a bucket with tap water and moving it around with my hand be enough as I'm in an apartment block and have no need for a hose

 

[fluttermoth]

will washing the sand in a bucket with tap water and moving it around with my hand be enough as I'm in an apartment block and have no need for a hose

Yes, that'll be fine; at least it shouldn't take you too long to do enough for your tank