Interested In Discus

[Musho3210]

Starting with the basics:

75 gallon low tech freshwater planted aquarium, has been set up for about 10 months.
XP3 canister filter
2 150 watt heaters

Current inhabitants:
School of cardinals and neons, bout 12-14 last count
A few corys here and there (kribensis have been bullying them from day one, the kribs have to go)
2 kribs (will be given away to another tank owner, too violent in my tank)
2 pearl guoramis
a black molly (probably going to give this one away too)
1 bn plec


Ive got about a year and a half experience under my belt.

Anyway simply put, i want discus. Wouldnt mind some info on them and their care, how many i can fit, and if needed, what other fish should/will need to leave the tank?

 

[kribensis12]

Alright, even though im a HUGE fan or Krib's!, i would recommend getting rid of them if you are getting Discus. The kribs will hurt and possibly kill them. Second, Discus do best in a soft acidic water with low nitrates( aorund 25 and under, not saying they cant handle 30 or 40). They need a Very High quality flake with lots of Protein in it. Also, you could fit about 6 comfortablly in that tank.

 

[Musho3210]

dont worry about ph/carbonate hardness or other things, i got a RO/DI unit, i could always do a mix of that and tap water.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Discus needing soft water is a load of crud. I have mine in 7.5 tap water, and they are completely fine! I have to agree with them liking low Nitrates but anywhere from 0-10 PPM is a better range. It really depends on tap water though. Everything else seems fine. A group of 5 Discus would be a nice size, they would all have plenty of room and probably flourish in a tank like that, but you could do maximum 7-8.


Just realized you have pearl gourami. IMO I wouldn't have those in there with the Discus. If you choose to keep them, make sure you keep a close eye on em'

 

[kribensis12]

Discus needing soft water is a load of crud.

Note how i said, "they do best" , i didnt say they require it. The do best in it because it's what there natural habitat is like, and you should get better fertilzation with the lower ph.

 

[Musho3210]

gouarmis are female pair, never have had any agression problem with them, but i'll keep an eye.

 

[shroob]

My LFS has the biggest pair of discus I've ever seen, and underneith the tank it says 'Kept in local Sheffield water' (I've tested my tapwater and it comes out around 7.6pH). I think that soft, acidic water is important for wildcaught.

Though you have to keep up on the water changes.

 

[angelmouse]

if you have an r/o unit you might as well use it, as it will take the impuritys out of the water and can only benifit your fish, and as kribensis12 says they need the soft water for eggs to fertilize if you want to breed from them. I had to remove a gourami from my tank as the discus seemed afraid of it but it was added after the discus, could be ok, just watch them.
The main thing is good quality water and plenty of waterchanges.
regards Angel

 

[rabbut]

They need a Very High quality flake with lots of Protein in it.

Hight quality flake yes, high protien in adults is a deffinate no-no. It's fine while growing as they need it for growth, but once growth has stopped, it has on occasion been linked to fatty liver disease. I'm no health expert, but I'm sure there is no cure for this, and prime caurse is usualy poor diet

I remember reading a report on the contents of discus fishes stomach's from the wild, and plant matter was the main bulk, with inssect lavea second. This may indicate mass mis-information amongst keepers on dietary requirements I'm open however to corrections especialy if this report has been disporoved

All the best
Rabbut

 

[blue acara]

I remember reading a report on the contents of discus fishes stomach's from the wild, and plant matter was the main bulk, with inssect lavea second. This may indicate mass mis-information amongst keepers on dietary requirements I'm open however to corrections especialy if this report has been disporoved

Your in the right area. According to Blehers book the list goes detritus, vegetable matter, algae, aquatic invertebrates and arthropods. However discus do love live and meaty foods, if they had the choice in the wild I believe they would eat a much higher percentage of protein rich foods. Feed a balance of live food/frozen food, and quality dry food.(some spirulina flake is good) A good beef/turkey heart mix has lots of protein and discus love it. Getting them to eat lots of plant matter and algae in captivity sounds great, but in practice they just don't eat it on its own. I add small amounts of fruit and spirulina to their beefheart food.

First bit of advice Musho3210 is to buy quality discus from the start. I have a few excellent lfs's near me but their discus are nearly always of poor to average quality. Its worth travelling or ordering online from a quality source. Look for a good circular shape and eyes that are not too big compared to the body.

As your tank is planted it would be good to buy decent sized discus from the start, 4-5 inch would be a good size. I'm not familiar with the XP3 canister filter but may well worthwhile adding to this filtration. a large air driven sponge filter would be a good choice.

 

[rabbut]

A good beef/turkey heart mix has lots of protein and discus love it. Getting them to eat lots of plant matter and algae in captivity sounds great, but in practice they just don't eat it on its own. I add small amounts of fruit and spirulina to their beefheart food.

First bit of advice Musho3210 is to buy quality discus from the start. I have a few excellent lfs's near me but their discus are nearly always of poor to average quality. Its worth travelling or ordering online from a quality source. Look for a good circular shape and eyes that are not too big compared to the body.

As your tank is planted it would be good to buy decent sized discus from the start, 4-5 inch would be a good size. I'm not familiar with the XP3 canister filter but may well worthwhile adding to this filtration. a large air driven sponge filter would be a good choice.

Although I agree with the rest of you advise, I'm again going to play devils advocate towards the diet question Any poltry or land animal protien is a different type of protien to the types that any fish would encounter in the wild. This brings us strait round to the issue of fatty liver disease, only this time the issue is noted to affect other organs too

If you are going to feed a high protien diet, make sure it is of water-born creatures so that your fish get the correct type of protien. Althoght I admit that discus love beefheart, it isn't good for them so use it only as a occasional treat to ensure their long-term health. The issue with poor diet is that it will take many months, even years, to show itself, making it hard to spot and do someting about. Do plenty of research into the dietry requirements of discus, to ensure you don't unintentionaly harm them by following what many discus keepers belive to be "common knowlage" from the hobby, that has a poor, often damaging even, grounding from tradition.

The XP3 would IMO be fine on its own, but as Blue said, a second filter is still a good idea. Your planning on some epencive fish here so redundant systems IMO are a must. A second filter means that a failure of one type or another doesn't wipe the tank, the spare will just tank the load. It also allows you to alrenate cleanings reducing the risks of major mini-cycles after cleanings

All the best
Rabbut

 

[shibby]

gouarmis are female pair, never have had any agression problem with them, but i'll keep an eye.

i have two female pearls in with mine and they seem fine

 

[Musho3210]

thanks for the help all, beef heart - 1 every week treat when the discus is young? (not a whole beefheart obviously, i mean one 3-5 minute meal)

How is feeding them freshwater mysis, blood shrimp, peas, carrots, broccoli, spirlulna powder, nori (it is a marine algae but would that be a problem) and a small bit of brine shrimp all mixed together as a stable diet? As well as flakes/pellets every once and a while to vary it a bit.

The xp3 is the canister filter from RENA, i'll look to into sponge filters but how about bio-wheel HOBs?

 

[blue acara]

Although I agree with the rest of you advise, I'm again going to play devils advocate towards the diet question Any poltry or land animal protien is a different type of protien to the types that any fish would encounter in the wild. This brings us strait round to the issue of fatty liver disease, only this time the issue is noted to affect other organs too

Beefheart is not the perfect food but I think it can be a good addition to a healthy discus diet. A problem with mammalian meat is that it contains a hard fat, known as tallow. Discus cannot digest this and it will clog the gut and accumulate around the liver. This will kill the discus prematurely.
However the heart is a special muscle and contains very little fat 1.5% max. I have tried to find some real information on it but cant in the little time I have to write this. Basically the heart is a fat free protein rich thing. The protein in the heart is not fully digestible however, which brings me to my next point.

Feeding beefheart can foul the tank water very quickly. Any uneaten food will rot very fast, and all the discus eat will produce waste obviously. When feeding beefheart make sure your discus eat it all/or you should remove any uneaten food after they have had their fill. This is why growing on young discus in planted tanks is not ideal-because they are hard to keep clean. Beefheart is excellent for growing young discus as you are changing water often and the tank has no rotting food or faeces.
I feed beefheart to my adults once per day, I think it can be a useful part of the diet. I add prawns, (cyclop-eeze, paprika-both if these are good for bringing out red colours), spriluna powder, dried bloodworm, earthworm flake, banana, strawberry, spinach. Basically you can add anything to a beefheart mix and they will eat most of it, so its a good way to get some healthy stuff into them easily. I vacuum any uneaten food after feeding it.
Overall I admit that beefheart is not the perfect food, but if used as part of a varied diet I think it fine and the discus love it.

 

[Musho3210]

for that reason (un-eaten food buildup) should i load up on some more corys? (say... 8 more making it about 10-11?)