I'm Starting To Think Bigger Isn't Better.

[eschaton]

I posted something similar to this in emergencies, but this is more a general gripe/observation.

I've been pretty down on the whole fishkeeping thing lately. It seems like, despite regular husbandry, fish continue to drop off for me from time to time. My planted tank always has zero nitrates, as the plants are healthy and growing well. I do large water changes every week or two. My tank is not very heavily stocked, and I always research fish before purchase. I only buy freshwater livestock from one trusted LFS, and I never get anything that looks diseased.

That said, I keep having mysterious fatalities which don't match any one disease, generally around one a month. Usually all I notice is a fish swimming more slowly and a little more pale. Sometimes a fish is a little bloated, sometimes a little skinny. Today I found one with a really swollen anus. Sometimes, fish just vanish outright. Every time it happens, it just makes me feel a little more stupid and evil.

Part of it's just my own damn fault, as I'm always not the most diligent and observant fish keeper. Especially when my marine tank was getting set up, I rarely looked into my planted tank except to feed the fish, trim back the plants, and to do water changes. I have a tendency to think "I'll deal with that first thing when I get home from work tomorrow," which generally turns out poorly with fishkeeping I've found, as around half the time I notice something's wrong, the fish is dead by the next day.

That said, I think about some of my other tanks which haven't had as much trouble. I've had my dwarf puffer in a tank by himself for quite awhile now (he used to have a tankmate, but when they matured they had to be separated). He's as fit as a fiddle - never had an issue with him. My girlfriend's tank, despite having a weird mix and being a bit overstocked for its size (betta with bumblebee gobies and an Oto) has worked out great for her, aside from a rash of Oto deaths when she got started. And my marine tank, though still new, is going well, with the only deaths I had two mysterious vanishings soon after introduction and one suicidal jumping goby (keeping the tank at only seven fish now).

So, I've basically come to the conclusion that, despite my love of small fish in large, community planted tanks, they really don't work out well from the standpoint of fish husbandry. This is because:

1. Schools of more than six fish are hard to count up. They don't stay still long enough. Who really notices when their school of twelve fish jumps down to ten?

2. In a heavily-planted tank, a small sick fish can hide, and ultimately die, totally out of site.

3. The more fish you have in a tank the more vectors for disease there are.

So, I've really come to despise the whole idea of a vibrant, large community tank full of small fishes. I think, once I have more room for tanks in the house, I'll permanently set up a few in 10-gallon and 20-gallon tanks for breeding (at least I can bring some new ones into the world to make up for the ones who've gone eh?), and convert my planted tank into a lightly-stocked tank for shrimp, algae-eating fish, and maybe a select few centerpiece fish. But I just think small fish generally belong in small tanks if you care about their welfare. Period.

 

[Dorkhedeos]

That is pretty true. If i had a big tank, I would never put small fish in there. Counting them would be a pain in the ass and I personally think that it is a waste of valuable tank space.

 

[Mikaila31]

I keep lots of little fish in a densely planted tank, and personally when one just goes missing and all the other fish look fine. It doesn't concern me to much. Especially when you have a school of fish and you come up 1 short of what their should be. You wonder how long its been missing and of course where it went. I'm terrible with that when I come up one short I normally assume the fish is just hidden among the plants, its only after not seeing it for 3 days that figure something happened to it. I keep an eye on the tank once I've noticed a fish has gone missing.

Then that leads to the times I forget about the fish I have . Like my 2 corys in my densely planted tank, I see them mabey once a month. And can never find them when I try too. They are like ghosts.

I love nano fish and am planning on turning my 55gal into a densely planted tank(if the rubber eels let me) then stocking it with fish that get no bigger that 1.5". But then I like it when fish are hard to locate in a tank, it makes it more interesting to me. The longer you observe the tank the more you see.

 

[rabbut]

I have loads of large groups of fish in my large planted tank, and I still manage to keep track of them all After a few months practice, you get good at counting moving fish

The deaths to me sound consistant with internal bacteria or internal parasites. Both would give those symptoms, and the latter is slow moving, thus that is where I recon your problem lies. I notice you are in the US, so you will have some meds at your disposal to stop you issue I'd PM Wilder about Internal Parasite meds.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[LauraFrog]

Pyrantel, praziquantel and trichlorforon are all parasite meds that might help. Ask Wilder which one to use -they act on different parasites.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

That said, I keep having mysterious fatalities which don't match any one disease, generally around one a month. Usually all I notice is a fish swimming more slowly and a little more pale. Sometimes a fish is a little bloated, sometimes a little skinny. Today I found one with a really swollen anus. Sometimes, fish just vanish outright. Every time it happens, it just makes me feel a little more stupid and evil.

It sounds like internal parasites is what is killing off your fish, fish can be infected with them for ages and show no obvious symptoms, while other times the fish shows symptoms and dies very quickly etc. Paleness and lack of activity is generally a sign of stress, while skinnyness and inflamed anus is a sign of internal parasites. Bloatedness and paleness can also be a sign of internal bacteria though.
Personally i would advise treating the tank with an anti internal parasite med, and then an anti internal bacterial med- i'm sure this will help clear up your fish problems, i had similar problems for a long time in one of my large community tanks but after treating the tank with such meds the amount of fish randomly dying seriously reduced and the tank is pretty much in the clear now .

 

[ALEXF]

im not sure what is causing it (internal parasites from whateverobe is saying) but i also have alot of small fish in a larger tank. It is harder to keep track of but as rabbit said you get the hang of it after a while. I dont know if you do this, but periodically i log everything i see in my tan, from aggression to color loss, to missing fish, to w/e deem might be important, and if i notice something is reaccuring (hince a fish lose) i look into it more. Like today, i couldnt find one of my apistogammas for the past 3 days, but i watched my tank for about an hour and keep trying to look around corners and things and finally spotted it swimming in the back.