Im Confused!

[Zsuzsa]

Hi! Im new as well, oh not another silly question, you might think!
Ive been reading other topics and im GETTING to understand the cycling.
But theres one question that came to my mind: If the one type of beneficial bacteria breaks down ammonia into nitrite, and another type of beneficial bacteria breaks down nitrite into nitrate. Now ammonia is fish poop and left over food, isnt it?
So why do i have to clean the gravel if the bacteria would do the job? Is it not good enough if i just do partial water change lets say 20 % each week?
Please dont be angry with me! Im a beginner. Im cleaning the gravel by the way!!!

 

[Gilli]

Hello! Most of the bacteria will be living in your filter not in your gravel.A small percent will be in your gravel but the bulk is in the filter. You need to vaccume your gravel to hoover up any uneaten food and poo as this will pollute the water causing problems with your fishes health. The better your water quality the healtheir your fish will be!

Give the whole tank a thorough gravel vac whilst changing 25% of your water every week.

 

[coldcazzie]

the bacteria don't walk around your tank with a hoover cleaning the gravel for you! (although that would be cool!) the bacteria metabolise the chemicals that are released into the water by the breaking down of poo/food/dead things, but they don't actually clean up the mess. If you're worried about starving the bacteria then dont - if there are fish in the tank (or you're adding ammonia) then there will be enough in there to sustain the bacteria. You just don't have to have a mucky tank to keep the bacteria alive.

And well done for reading the cycling threads ask as many questions as you want - it's the only way you'll learn!

 

[Zsuzsa]

Thanks to all of you who replied!
Yes, i guess it makes sense now !
Also, how often do i need to do water change, gravel clean and filter clean?

 

[coldcazzie]

Once tank is cycled weekly water changes are fine, gravel clean every time you water change and only clean your filter when the flow of water slows (ie, not very often!) and only then by swishing it/gently squeezing in old tank water. Don't replace any filter bits unless they are literally crumbling in your hands!

 

[Littlemonkey]

What size is your tank. I do a weekly 50% change, gravel vac etc on a 120 litre. It keeps me fit and the fish too.

 

[Zsuzsa]

I had a massive problem with my tank. My brother had it first than he struggled with it and wanted to give up so i took the fishtank to my place, knowing nothing about fishkeeping, but now realizing i did not know much less than my brother did...sadly!
This fishtank has never been cycled, could that be possible??? I thought in the beginning the more i clean the better, so i cleaned the filter, gravel, 50% water change every week! I think i said enough!
The more fish shop i went into the more confused i got. Until i ended up HERE!!!!
I really appreciate any comments and advice and there are a lot of helpful fish-loving people here who are only trying to help for the people like myself (who are probably learning the hard way) to keep happy and healthy fish for a very long time!

 

[Zsuzsa]

Once tank is cycled weekly water changes are fine, gravel clean every time you water change and only clean your filter when the flow of water slows (ie, not very often!) and only then by swishing it/gently squeezing in old tank water. Don't replace any filter bits unless they are literally crumbling in your hands!

Thanks Coldcazzie! I just changed 2 foams (medium and carbon) recently as they have never been replaced (in the last appr 2 years). So basically im still cycling the filter?

What size is your tank. I do a weekly 50% change, gravel vac etc on a 120 litre. It keeps me fit and the fish too.

Hi Littlemonkey! Thanks for writing. Ive got an around 112 litre tank which is not much smaller than yours. And i do 20% water change weekly, although i dont clean the gravel every week.

 

[coldcazzie]

Well, you don't really need the carbon in there at all. Carbon is only useful for about the first 3-7 days of it being in the tank, and is really only good for removing chemicals (like after you medicate) - if it's left in the filter after that time then it basically just becomes another filter sponge for the bacteria to colonise.

Can you give us more details about the tank? Ie, size, what decor/plants there are, how many fish and what kinds, and what you're currently doing to maintain it?

Also, do you have test kits? The best way to tell if your tank is healthy, as it were, is to test the water. That will also tell you if it is cycled or not. If he had it for 2 years then it probably was cycled before - even if he never specifically went about cycling it, it still will have happened by itself. It's possible though that by replacing one of the sponges you may have a mini-cycle on your hands. Or it may be that you're ok because you've not replaced everything.

 

[Zsuzsa]

Is that a problem if i do too many water changes a week? What happens then? Which is better if i change 10% every other day or 20% twice a week?
Can i cause harm with this? Or just the water quality will be good?
Im only asking because i had high ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings. Now the ammonia is 0, and i still have got nitrite i need to get rid of. But its probably due to not being cycled. This is why i was scared to clean the gravel, in case i remove beneficial bacteria.

 

[Zsuzsa]

Well, you don't really need the carbon in there at all. Carbon is only useful for about the first 3-7 days of it being in the tank, and is really only good for removing chemicals (like after you medicate) - if it's left in the filter after that time then it basically just becomes another filter sponge for the bacteria to colonise.

Can you give us more details about the tank? Ie, size, what decor/plants there are, how many fish and what kinds, and what you're currently doing to maintain it?

Also, do you have test kits? The best way to tell if your tank is healthy, as it were, is to test the water. That will also tell you if it is cycled or not. If he had it for 2 years then it probably was cycled before - even if he never specifically went about cycling it, it still will have happened by itself. It's possible though that by replacing one of the sponges you may have a mini-cycle on your hands. Or it may be that you're ok because you've not replaced everything.

112 litre tank, plastic plants , few hiding places, fish ive got is: 2 clown loaches, 2 peppered corydoras, 1 molly, 2f + 1m guppy, 2 gouramis, 2 black phantom tetras, 3 neon tetras, 3 harlequin tetras, 4 penguin tetras and 2 common plecos.

Ive got a Nutrafin test kit, which i use nearly every day.

So should i get rid of the carbon foam or just keep it for the bacteria?

 

[coldcazzie]

No you cannot do too many water changes. If your nitrite is up then water changing is the right thing to do - do as many as you need, as large as you need, to reduce the nitrite to below 0.25 on the chart and keep it there. You won't stress the fish out - any stress they may suffer from lots of water changes is far outweighed by the stress they will be suffering from high nitrite levels. Nitrite acts like carbon monoxide to humans - it stops them being able to use oxygen properly.

The bacteria are mostly in the filter - there is neglegible (sp?) amounts in the gravel so you'll not harm the bacterial colonies by cleaning the gravel.

It might be that replacing the 2 sponges put the filter into a mini cycle which is where you are currently - keep up with the water changes you'll get there.

 

[Zsuzsa]

No you cannot do too many water changes. If your nitrite is up then water changing is the right thing to do - do as many as you need, as large as you need, to reduce the nitrite to below 0.25 on the chart and keep it there. You won't stress the fish out - any stress they may suffer from lots of water changes is far outweighed by the stress they will be suffering from high nitrite levels. Nitrite acts like carbon monoxide to humans - it stops them being able to use oxygen properly.

The bacteria are mostly in the filter - there is neglegible (sp?) amounts in the gravel so you'll not harm the bacterial colonies by cleaning the gravel.

It might be that replacing the 2 sponges put the filter into a mini cycle which is where you are currently - keep up with the water changes you'll get there.

Thanks very much Coldcazzie!
I did a 20 % water change today but didnt clean the gravel, so i will do another one tomorrow and clean the gravel.
When you clean the gravel, do you clean the waste out till its spotless or you just clean it here and there or just the top of the gravel?

 

[coldcazzie]

112 litre tank, plastic plants , few hiding places, fish ive got is: 2 clown loaches, 2 peppered corydoras, 1 molly, 2f + 1m guppy, 2 gouramis, 2 black phantom tetras, 3 neon tetras, 3 harlequin tetras, 4 penguin tetras and 2 common plecos.

Ive got a Nutrafin test kit, which i use nearly every day.

So should i get rid of the carbon foam or just keep it for the bacteria?

wow! no wonder you're having problems - the tank is WAAAAAY overstocked!

Clown loaches get to a foot long each, and the common plecos between 1 and 2 feet long each, so these are way too big for your tank. Also, plecos are very messy so they will be producing lots of poo, which might explain some of your problems. The rest of them are alright sizes for the tank I think, it's just a case of working out numbers - basically the most efficient rule is 1inch of fish (not including the tail) per gallon of water - your tank is approx 30 gallons, so that gives you 30 inches of adult fish. If you go to the species listings for each fish they will tell you how big each fish will get and you will be able to work it out.

If I were you I would immediately rehome the clown loaches and the plecos - maybe give them to a local fish store, or swap them for store credit or something, but that will definitely help your situation. It sounds horrible, but quite frankly they will die/be extremely unhealthy if they stay in your tank. That, and they are overloading your filter which might be some of the reason why you're having issues with bad water quality.

It's up to you whether you keep the carbon or not... how long ago did you replace the pad? Personally, I'd remove it, but that doesn't mean you have to, or should. If you wanted to you could wait until the mini cycle is over and then remove it, but you might risk another one, on the other hand if you remove it now you may prolong the one you have - it's swings and roundabouts I guess...

Edited to add: if you push your siphon down into the gravel you'll get a huge cloud of muck appear out of the gravel. Once that's cleared, pull the siphon out and push it down somewhere else - do that over all the gravel (except where you have plants/ornaments). It doesn't have to be spotless, but it does have to be done! when you're doing it every week you'll find that the clouds are much less dark/dense than if you don't do it so often. Every now and then (like once or twice a year) you can take all the decor/plastic plants out and clean underneath where they were.

 

[Zsuzsa]

112 litre tank, plastic plants , few hiding places, fish ive got is: 2 clown loaches, 2 peppered corydoras, 1 molly, 2f + 1m guppy, 2 gouramis, 2 black phantom tetras, 3 neon tetras, 3 harlequin tetras, 4 penguin tetras and 2 common plecos.

Ive got a Nutrafin test kit, which i use nearly every day.

So should i get rid of the carbon foam or just keep it for the bacteria?

wow! no wonder you're having problems - the tank is WAAAAAY overstocked!

Clown loaches get to a foot long each, and the common plecos between 1 and 2 feet long each, so these are way too big for your tank. Also, plecos are very messy so they will be producing lots of poo, which might explain some of your problems. The rest of them are alright sizes for the tank I think, it's just a case of working out numbers - basically the most efficient rule is 1inch of fish (not including the tail) per gallon of water - your tank is approx 30 gallons, so that gives you 30 inches of adult fish. If you go to the species listings for each fish they will tell you how big each fish will get and you will be able to work it out.

If I were you I would immediately rehome the clown loaches and the plecos - maybe give them to a local fish store, or swap them for store credit or something, but that will definitely help your situation. It sounds horrible, but quite frankly they will die/be extremely unhealthy if they stay in your tank. That, and they are overloading your filter which might be some of the reason why you're having issues with bad water quality.

It's up to you whether you keep the carbon or not... how long ago did you replace the pad? Personally, I'd remove it, but that doesn't mean you have to, or should. If you wanted to you could wait until the mini cycle is over and then remove it, but you might risk another one, on the other hand if you remove it now you may prolong the one you have - it's swings and roundabouts I guess...

Edited to add: if you push your siphon down into the gravel you'll get a huge cloud of muck appear out of the gravel. Once that's cleared, pull the siphon out and push it down somewhere else - do that over all the gravel (except where you have plants/ornaments). It doesn't have to be spotless, but it does have to be done! when you're doing it every week you'll find that the clouds are much less dark/dense than if you don't do it so often. Every now and then (like once or twice a year) you can take all the decor/plastic plants out and clean underneath where they were.

OH NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my god! Really??? Im so sorry, i honestly didnt know that! Poor fish!

What if they are still small? Can i not rehome them when they go bigger? Just because they are my favourite fish!

I noticed that the bigger pleco is messy.

I changed the foams on 20 September.

To be honest i always take the plants and ornament out or move them around when i clean the gravel, should i not do that?