Im Confused

nicolabradshaw

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when i bought my tank it came with a sachet of stress coat and a sachet of stress zyme, according to the set up and maintenance book i got with it, my tank should now be ready to accept fish (its says leave tank at least 24 hours - its been a week tomorrow since set up)
since coming onto this site i have read about adding ammonia to the water and testing it so i know that the tank is working correctly, how come i havent heard of this before?

have i got to use ammonia in the water or could i take my water to be tested and hope it is ok? i had been looking forward to adding my fish this weekend but if i need to put ammonia in there i wont be able to do this.
 
It would be much easier for you and the fish if you did a cycle before you get any fish.

There are a few stickies on the subject. I advise that you read them.
 
It would be much easier for you and the fish if you did a cycle before you get any fish.

There are a few stickies on the subject. I advise that you read them.

The tank will have done a cycle for a week by the time i have added fish but i havent used ammonia.

Its the stickies that have caused confusion as they are contradictory of everything else i have read
 
OK enough is enough.
As I said soo many times in the past fishkeeping today is very very stressful. Read the forum posts especially fish emergencies and wow you must be thinking what da hell am I letting myself in for. Cycling this and cycling that, with fish, fishless. Stop.... information overload for a newbie.

This is how us oldies setup aquariums in the days of Noah and the ark. Whilst I fully recognise things have moved on and new inovations crop up every day almost, this doesn't necessarly mean it's better. Just look at the amount of wierd and wonderful medications nowdays. more ways of treating a desease than there are hair shampoos.

Fish tank whatever the dimensions clean well with lukewarm water and salt mixture rinse well
Position tank (dont forget a layer of polystyrene beneath if its not framed.
You may wish to have a nice planted aquarium at some stage so substrate is next.
Mix enough fine gravel unwashed (not pea and not sand) with garden loam and place on the bottom of the aquarium to a depth of around 25mm, next place 30mm of washed fine gravel on top. Substrate sorted.

Heater/stat is set to 75'F, whatever type of filtration you desire (internal external powerfilter look for the easiest to maintain) set up, lighting ready to plug in. (you can if you so wish place you lights on a timer for less hassle) stick on yer thermometer.
Pour in the water onto a saucer until half full, remove saucer.....Aquascape and then finish topping up with water.
Right switch everything on. The tank will get cloudy yes. bubbles will form on the glass yes.
Leave everything for 1 week to 10 days (NO FISH).
Then do a 50% waterchange and wait one more week.
Bingo.. now your ready to advance... not before.
Do a little research on livestock and compatibility and fill all the water levels with fish for a more pleasing effect.
see my sig for one plan.
You are aiming for a quiet life whereby you can sit down and enjoy your aquarium as much as possible.
Perform weekly waterchanges. I usually just change 2 gallons.
The only additive I use is Blackwater Extract 1 tablespoon in a 2 gallon bucket.
I forget the last time I lost a fish.
The moral I am trying to instill is to keep it simple, dont get caught up in all the hype around here and other sites surrounding chemicals for adding to this and chemicals for curing that. Most chemicals other than desease remedies are just there to speed up nature, I prefer just to wait. There are no experts here nomatter how long they've been in the game, we are all still learning.
I hope this was of some help to you and others alike
Happy fishkeeping
BigC
 
Pour in the water onto a saucer until half full, remove saucer.....Aquascape and then finish topping up with water.
Right switch everything on. The tank will get cloudy yes. bubbles will form on the glass yes.
Leave everything for 1 week to 10 days (NO FISH).
Then do a 50% waterchange and wait one more week.
Bingo.. now your ready to advance... not before.

Huh? While I completely respect that lots of people have kept fish for longer than I have, I can't figure out what this is supposed to accomplish. I'm all for simplifying things for newbies: I'm kind of a research geek and personally enjoyed learning about the water chemistry stuff, but it made my husband's head spin, so I know we all view that kind of stuff differently. But not attempting to explain it, or worse yet, implying that understanding it all is unnecessary, isn't really going to benefit a new fishkeeper in the long run. 5 years down the road he'll decide to get a new filter, toss his old one, and wonder why the fish are dying.

Nicola, here's about the best I can simplify it for you:

Fish poo decomposes and turns into ammonia. Ammonia can kill fish. But over time, some "good" bacteria will build up that will "eat" the ammonia and produce something called NitrIte. But that's also toxic for fish. Eventually, even more good bacteria will build up that will eat the nitrIte, and leave you with something called NitrAte. That's not nearly as harmful to fish; we all have nitrate in our tanks. To keep the nitrate levels from getting too high, we do water changes to dilute it. (Most people change anywhere from 20% a week to 50% a week, usually.)

SO - you have a decision to make. You can put a few fish in your tank, and let them be the ones to produce ammonia (through their poo, or any decaying bits of food that remain in the tank), and thus get this whole "cycle" thing -- the build up of the good bacteria -- started. OR you can do it artificially. Put some ammonia (yep, just like you use to clean) straight into the tank, and then put fish in AFTER all the good bacteria have built up, so they won't be exposed to the ammonia and nitrite that are so harmful.

There are pros and cons to each method. In cycling WITH fish you don't have to wait weeks before you have fish to look at. But your fish could die from ammonia or nitrite poisoning. To avoid this, you have to do LOTS of water changes (sometimes one a day - or more). You also have chose something like danios that can are tough enough to live through the cycling process.

If you cycle without fish - by adding the ammonia yourself -- it doesn't matter how high the ammonia and nitrites get because there's no fish in your tank, so you're not doing a zillion water changes. The con is you'll be looking at an empty fishtank for a few weeks.

The stuff that came with your tank is designed to take the place of all this "cycling." Unfortunately, those products don't really work. And most people at the fish stores really don't understand the whole process, they just know that "here's this stuff that the tank manufacturer says they're supposed to recommend."

Right now, regardless of what method you chose to cycle your tank - fish or fishless you need two things: 1. a water test kit. Try the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. It's about $30 and it will last you a really long time AND give you really accurate results. 2. water conditioner. This removes chlorine/choloramine from your tap water.

Take a look at these two links. It will give you a little more info, and expand on what I said above.
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099
http://www.fishforums.net/Fishless-Cycling-t113861.html

Good luck! Hope that helps!
 
Just what is leaving a tank with water in it for 7-10 days, then doing a 50% water change supposed to do?. There's nothing in it but water, nothing will be happening to the filter, there's nothing in the tank to DO anything to the filter. BTW, fishkeeping is only stressful if you go about it the stressful way. A little research takes all the stress out of it.
 
You know, I'm new to this hobby, too..... and sometimes I find the responses to newbie questions really harsh. People come here to learn, not get chastised for mistakes they didn't know they were making. True, you may have already told 100 newbies about cycling, or water changes, or stocking and if that makes you mad and you don't think you can handle making one more post on the same topic, then don't. Take your holier than thou, my way or the highway attitude elsewhere.

I agree completely that research will get you far in life. Knowledge is free. And empowering. And that's why people are here asking questions. To gain knowledge. It's how they are doing their research.

A little kindness and compassion go a very long way, unless your modus operandi is to discourage as many people as possible from enjoying this hobby.

Mistakes are part of the learning curve. Deal with it. :shifty:

*Disclaimer: this post was not directed to any one person so a libel lawsuit is completely out of the question and will be used as toilet paper. :look:
 
Sorry if I've patronised or offended any one, I was merely suggesting simplicity. without getting bogged initally with techie overload.
Once again I apologize
Regards
BigC
 
Sorry if I've patronised or offended any one, I was merely suggesting simplicity. without getting bogged initally with techie overload.
Once again I apologize
Regards
BigC

Having been in and out of the hobby for years. I come and go...wait, did the wind change?? Ok, I'm outta here. LOL J/K I must agree here...we tend to geektalk, is what I call it. We put all these technical terms togetherand all of the sudden the new person becomes completely confused and runs away screaming in the night. Honestly, that's not what we need, and definitely not what we should want. We need to spread this hobby and let people understand that the beauty of nature can be had right in their living rooms, assuming they are willing to clean a tank to get it. Because, that's all the work is...cleaning. Everything else, feeding, stocking, testing, etc....that's the fun part. Water changes, scrubing, etc, etc...that's cleaning. You do it for the dog, your fish are no different. ;)

I tend to be a bit old school. I put the tank together, put some bacteria in it for a week, tested the water, ran out and got some fish. Now, after that some of them died, some didn't. I didn't spend a bunch of time, worrying over a fishless cycle. My water tests said told me that nothing was going to happen to the fish, i.e. they weren't going to burst into flames when they touched the water. Heck, in fact...only the new fish, 2, passed on. The others I have had over a year (Yes, I move them around into new tanks), 4 plus a crayfish, live on, surviving the "cycle" and helping me out in the process.

Look, you make this hobby, or any other, what you want. I try to give answer as I know them. If not, I try and give you an informed opinion. Heck, even after 10 years I still find stuff to learn, and I still have fish die...it just urks me more now. Everyone has to learn somewhere, let's make this place the place they come to learn. :)

I'm not jumping on anyone's parade or stealing their cron flakes. I'm just saying that if we help people progress in this hobby, we help ourselves.
 
Sorry if I've patronised or offended any one, I was merely suggesting simplicity. without getting bogged initally with techie overload.
Once again I apologize
Regards
BigC


lol

i understand what your saying BigC, this hobby is way too confusing sometimes but i think honestly we need to strike a balance. Plenty of people get very caught up in the science behind fishkeeping and while it's certainly interesting we have to accept a lot of people really aren't that bothered, they just want a nice low maintenance pretty tank they can relax and watch of an evening.

you can learn the basics of the nitrogen cycle without any complicated technical terms, read the link in my sig 'whats cycling?' which i think explains it in a nice easy way.

then you can decide between two options, you fishless cycle or cycle with fish. both have advantages and disadvantages.

fishless cycling isn't really that complex, you add ammonia to keep the tank up to roughly 5ppm and keep adding it when it drops down. you'll see ammonia rise and then fall the nitrite rise and then fall, then big water change and add fish. it really is that simple IMHO. yeah it takes a couple of weeks, but so does the old fashioned method of waiting a couple of weeks.

alternativley if you want your fish straight away you can go for it, just choose very hardy fish and do lots of water changes, again it's not complicated or massivley time consuming, but it'll take a while before you can get all the fish you want, you may loose a fish or two in the process.

i think we can (and should) strive to make a balance between these new ways of doing things and not loosing sight of why people want tanks in the first place
 
Thanks for all the replies, i bought some tetra over the weekend and a suckerfish (2 neon tetra, 2 cardinal tetra and 2 diamond headed tetra), my neon tetra seem to be losing the redness of the bodies but show no other sign on neon tetra disease which i have just read about, and my cardinal tetra see to have a patchy colour to them at the moment, would this be caused by the stress of putting them into my tank? i hadnt done a water test and will be getting one done today, but i was told at local aquarium store that my tank should be fine, as it had a fishless cycle for a week. ive also discovered snails in my tank which i am NOT happy about, my plants were obviously infected with them. and i have cloudy white blobs in the bottom of the tank but have no idea what they are.
 
I'm afraid a lot of LFS don't even acknowledge the existence of fishless cycling. Unfortunately, you haven't done a fishless cycle. Leaving a tank for a week does absolutely nothing. You'll probably lose the Neons and Cardinals. Neons are poor first fish for any tank and Cardinals should only be added to a tank after it's been cycled AND matured. It's disappointing that after being pointed towards information on fishless cycling, you've taken the advice of your LFS and subjected your fish to ammonia and nitrite poisoning. Please try to take them back to the shop and start again with a fishless cycle; all the information you could want is on this site. I'd look for another LFS. Before buying anything else, please research.
 
yup what vinylman said is right

you are now cycling with fish, read the link in my sig 'what's cycling?' for instructions of what to do.
 

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