If you abuse your fish you pay the crime

[anewbie]

https://www.cnn.com/2026/07/13/americas/argentina-goldfish-sentient-latam-intl

 

[gwand47 163]

The judge made a great ruling.

 

[plebian]

I just logged in specifically to post the same link.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford47 162]

I've seen some fishkeepers that should get a lawyer on retainer.

 

[plebian]

I've seen some fishkeepers that should get a lawyer on retainer.

Some? More than some, certainly. Most? At least that's the case in my part of the world. It used to be the same in the U.S. Not sure what it's like now, but I still see people insisting discus only require 10 gallons per fish and Bettas are perfectly fine in 2 gallons. Obviously both will survive assuming decent water quality, but it's like saying life in prison is having a life. Technically true, but...

 

[JuiceBox5221]

Great ruling. It’s good to see the less “cute” animals finally being taken seriously in terms of neglect and abuse

 

[GaryE8 6]

We've had several recent discussions that touch on these issues. I don't know the resolution, in terms of enforcement here. Eventually, I think it may lead to a total restructuring of the aquarium hobby. There are already moves to ban it entirely. If that happens, then we are responsible to a degree.

We can't seem to get it though our heads that animals aren't commodities, while we have a distribution system that is built on them being "units". On this continent, we're less than 200 years past selling people - pretty recent in historical terms. There's a conflict between our diets (as animals too), our economy, religious writings, traditional attitudes and data on sentience.

Around here, puppy pounds are largely closed, and people can still get dogs through responsible breeders. You can't get shelter dogs or rescues without looking hard, and there are sketchy outfits that ship them in from Texas, for people who want rescues. I haven't seen dogs for sale in a pet store for ages. Closing the puppy mills has reduced the casual, dump the doggo culture to almost nothing, and the few rescues out there are usually because of human's health, age or death. But the supply over all still matches the motivated demand. The casual demand is ignored. Is something like that the future of the aquarium hobby?

I can see where the US model of mega pet corporations could do what Walmart did, and just stop selling fish because it was a hassle compared to the profits. We have chains here emulating the American model, and the amount of floor space given to fish is getting tinier and tinier. That would be catastrophic for our pastime, as we've become pretty bad at keeping clubs alive, and running alternative, ethical cottage breeding set ups.

What do we do? I guess, keep educating. Try to come to a consensus among ourselves about what humane treatment is. Stay on forums and share knowledge about best practices. And try to look at our own fish as sentient beings who like us, only get one life. We're in a situation where we can make it a good one, if we so choose. Choose we should.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford47 162]

Great ruling. It’s good to see the less “cute” animals finally being taken seriously in terms of neglect and abuse

It's a step. Still there are things that are appalling. For instance YouTube has no mechanism to report animal abuse on any of their content. Yet if you search there are videos of animals being forced to fight each other to the death.
How about we stop that instead of trying to keep me from responsibility keeping fish?

 

[gwand47 163]

There has to be some degree of oversight. How about we ban stores from importing and maintaining B. splendens in cups?

 

[Rusty_Shackleford47 162]

And arrest the creators of parrot fiah. Certainly that's cruelty.

Assemble the villagers!

 

[GaryE8 6]

There has to be some degree of oversight. How about we ban stores from importing and maintaining B. splendens in cups?

Ultimately, "we" stop buying Bettas from stores that do that. The flaw is that experienced or "into it" aquarists are few, and probably don't buy cupped Bettas anyway. Before mega-fins were the norm, my local store kept fancy Bettas one to a 10 gallon with other fish. They were good, healthy fish worth buying, but their long fins weren't as long as what consumers demand now.

Glo-fish were illegal to sell here for a long time, not for good reasons but because they were copyrighted and there could be no controls on breeding them. But no one inspected, and if you could find the right/wrong store, there they were.

If you care to look for such things, fighting plakat Betta splendens can be bought in most cities, for bloodsport gamblers.

Regulations are good, but inspection to see that basic norms are respected is expensive.

 

[anewbie]

And arrest the creators of parrot fiah. Certainly that's cruelty.

Assemble the villagers!

This is a totally different issue and in my view off topic for this thread.

Anyway we have to be careful what we wish for as there are no standards and it is virtually impossible to set standards. One person might feel a 29 is fine for a pair of angelfishes another a 100 gallon and another anything less then a 1000 gallons is inhumane. We are never going to imitate nature for south american fishes for the most part (though i suppose there are a few bog fishes and such that have limited room) because none of us have room for a river or tributary in our home. Is the solution to ban fishes ? How would you feel about that ? i certainly would prefer that is not the case.

We can look at betta in a cup or guppies by the pound but then again is there a difference between domestic inbred fishes and wild caught fishes. What about the person who knows better but still keeps neon tetra in 800 tds water or the person who simply doesn't know any better or even know what tds represents.

Then we can talk about dogs and cats and birds - since we can't have a forest in our homes should cats be banned. Since we can't have a 100 miles of open range should dogs be banned.

While it seems obvious that a gold fish in a fish bowl that is 1/2 gallon has no chance (betta are actually better off in a cup); when do you actually draw the line - and who wants to allocate resources to enforce it.

While you might champion the judge decision there will be another judge that rules differently and the arguments will become endless.

In some areas legislators will react but will their reaction be pragmatic - something that is enforceable but doesn't completely kill the industry. Probably not - most can't even tie their own shoe laces.

Anyways it is easy to sprout off but be careful what you wish for unless you want to live with no pets and no plants and never touch grass for fear you will harm a sentiment beign.

 

[JuiceBox5221]

It's a step. Still there are things that are appalling. For instance YouTube has no mechanism to report animal abuse on any of their content. Yet if you search there are videos of animals being forced to fight each other to the death.
How about we stop that instead of trying to keep me from responsibility keeping fish?

There is a couple accounts on YouTube/tiktok/instagram/facebook who create videos intentionally abusing (in horrific ways that have made me throw up) plecos with the excuse of “they’re invasive anyway so I’m just helping the population”. But it’s not just extermination, it is torture.

There is also an account who will buy animals and put them in abandoned pools or gross old tanks to “explore the abandoned pool and rescue these poor fish he discovered”. It’s been proven to be staged. An axolotl breeder learned one of their axolotls was being used in these videos and confronted the creator. It was all excuses from his end. Very sad

 

[anewbie]

There is a couple accounts on YouTube/tiktok/instagram/facebook who create videos intentionally abusing (in horrific ways that have made me throw up) plecos with the excuse of “they’re invasive anyway so I’m just helping the population”. But it’s not just extermination, it is torture.

There is also an account who will buy animals and put them in abandoned pools or gross old tanks to “explore the abandoned pool and rescue these poor fish he discovered”. It’s been proven to be staged. An axolotl breeder learned one of their axolotls was being used in these videos and confronted the creator. It was all excuses from his end. Very sad

All i can say is i'm glad i previously didn't know about this crap and wish i still didn't know. sometime there is a blessing in being ignorant.

 

[JuiceBox5221]

All i can say is i'm glad i previously didn't know about this crap and wish i still didn't know. sometime there is a blessing in being ignorant.

Knowledge can be a curse sometimes