Ich?

[Jabba]

I do truly sympathise, I too have lost friends to this horrid disease.

My tank got it from a fish that must have been a carrier because I kept it in quarantine for 14 days, within 4 days of introducing it boom, that fish has never shown any signs of the disease - I lost 16 fish, that was weeks ago my tank is still recovering.

I have found that Ich can cause deaths days after all trace of the spots are gone, I have seen the gill damage this disease causes under a microscope, even if the disease is gone the damage may be terminal, if you are seeing spots by the way the disease is already well established. I knew something was wrong because there were fish hanging at the surface and the Betta went into hiding, I didn't know what it was, my water chemistry was fine, temperature was fine so I put another airstone in there just in case - it didn't help.

I also found the little white spots in the filters and they checked out under the microscope as ich so I am not entirely convinced that Ich needs a fish to perpetuate its cycle.

I had to get a microscope and do some pretty unpleasant 'autopsies' on my dead friends to diagnose it properly as Ich because the problem was so bad that the meds seemed to do nothing.

In future any fish that goes in the quarantine tank is getting Anti Ich and Anti Bacterial treatment whether it shows signs of infection / infestation or not. In addition I will never buy fish from more than one LFS tank at a time however tempting it may be to buy half the shop at each visit.

I am now running an 11 watt UV on my tropicals and I don't care who says if you do it right you don't need it, they are just sticking their head in the sand in my opinion and are not doing everything possible for the welfare of their fish.

Prevention is ALWAYS better than cure.

PS the best Ich treatment by far is King British WS3 but you really need to take care as it is an almost industrial strength.

 

[happy swimmers]

I do truly sympathise, I too have lost friends to this horrid disease.

My tank got it from a fish that must have been a carrier because I kept it in quarantine for 14 days, within 4 days of introducing it boom, that fish has never shown any signs of the disease - I lost 16 fish, that was weeks ago my tank is still recovering.

I have found that Ich can cause deaths days after all trace of the spots are gone, I have seen the gill damage this disease causes under a microscope, even if the disease is gone the damage may be terminal, if you are seeing spots by the way the disease is already well established. I knew something was wrong because there were fish hanging at the surface and the Betta went into hiding, I didn't know what it was, my water chemistry was fine, temperature was fine so I put another airstone in there just in case - it didn't help.

I also found the little white spots in the filters and they checked out under the microscope as ich so I am not entirely convinced that Ich needs a fish to perpetuate its cycle.

I had to get a microscope and do some pretty unpleasant 'autopsies' on my dead friends to diagnose it properly as Ich because the problem was so bad that the meds seemed to do nothing.

In future any fish that goes in the quarantine tank is getting Anti Ich and Anti Bacterial treatment whether it shows signs of infection / infestation or not. In addition I will never buy fish from more than one LFS tank at a time however tempting it may be to buy half the shop at each visit.

I am now running an 11 watt UV on my tropicals and I don't care who says if you do it right you don't need it, they are just sticking their head in the sand in my opinion and are not doing everything possible for the welfare of their fish.

Prevention is ALWAYS better than cure.

PS the best Ich treatment by far is King British WS3 but you really need to take care as it is an almost industrial strength.

Thank you for your sympathy. At this point I am just trying to save what's left of my community population. Including "The Big Guy"(BGK). I've been keeping the tank mostly dark, temp is up, stopped using quick cure, started with ICH Attach(as suggested by Kay123-Thank you). Did 30% water change and started treatment. Haven't seen any spots-but BKG is gasping and hangs by the filter intake in the dark-my biggest fear is losing him. Carbon is out of the filter. Yes I do go into overdrive in my LFS. Won't do that anymore. Do you think I should change the wheels in filter? If you found deposits in filter maybe there's a possibilty that they could be my wheels. At this point I am doing as much as possible. I have one catfish, BGK, and five various tetras all schooling fish and 2 are missing their friends. It is very upsetting they seem so lost. Do you think that your King British would be safe for these little guys? Thanks.

 

[Jabba]

I hope you did a real good gravel vacuum when you did the water change (this is where the Ich Trophonts go to mature) because this can remove a lot of the maturing Ich - I didn't, I didn't know enough then and it has I think prolonged my problems.

My advice now would be to add as much air as you can too, it seems like the ich is affecting his gills (that is usually the first place it goes) long before you see the outward signs so he needs all the help he can get, warmer water naturally means lower oxygen levels and if his gills are infected he will be having real problems in even highly oxygenated water, I know there are those that say running air through water doesn't really add much oxygen but it DOES expose more of the water TOO oxygen, it can't hurt. I also raised my spraybar to really agitate the water surface.

I ran 2 12" airstones constantly, one of them is still there while everyone heals up ....

I would also put some anti bacterial in there to prevent secondary infections etc. As you are already treating with something you need to find what you can use with it I have no experience with what you are using so wouldn't like to advise. I wouldn't advise switching to King British as you are already treating with another and you can't be sure how they will behave together, WS3 is almost what I would call a commercial grade and was taken off the market for a while because people were killing thier fish with it, but they brought it back by demand because properly used I think (as do other commercial fish breeders I know) it is the best you can get without involviing a Vet.

Until you make some headway with the Ich - should be improving within 3 to 4 days but can take weeks - I wouldn't stress the tank by interfering with the filter although I think you should be getting the spares ready to do something.

 

[happy swimmers]

I hope you did a real good gravel vacuum when you did the water change (this is where the Ich Trophonts go to mature) because this can remove a lot of the maturing Ich - I didn't, I didn't know enough then and it has I think prolonged my problems.

My advice now would be to add as much air as you can too, it seems like the ich is affecting his gills (that is usually the first place it goes) long before you see the outward signs so he needs all the help he can get, warmer water naturally means lower oxygen levels and if his gills are infected he will be having real problems in even highly oxygenated water, I know there are those that say running air through water doesn't really add much oxygen but it DOES expose more of the water TOO oxygen, it can't hurt. I also raised my spraybar to really agitate the water surface.

I ran 2 12" airstones constantly, one of them is still there while everyone heals up ....

I would also put some anti bacterial in there to prevent secondary infections etc. As you are already treating with something you need to find what you can use with it I have no experience with what you are using so wouldn't like to advise. I wouldn't advise switching to King British as you are already treating with another and you can't be sure how they will behave together, WS3 is almost what I would call a commercial grade and was taken off the market for a while because people were killing thier fish with it, but they brought it back by demand because properly used I think (as do other commercial fish breeders I know) it is the best you can get without involviing a Vet.

Until you make some headway with the Ich - should be improving within 3 to 4 days but can take weeks - I wouldn't stress the tank by interfering with the filter although I think you should be getting the spares ready to do something.

Thank you for the info. I did a thorough vacuuming. The big guy is hanging on. The smaller tetras seem to show no signs of problems. I keep a track of them constantly. Catfish still hanging out on the bottom. I have 2 bubblers in there but will purchase larger ones today. I think it is safe to add anti-bacterial with this med because it is all natural-but will do research first. I am thinking about draining the tank, rinsing the gravel and giving it a thorough cleaning. At this point I don't know. I will continue with meds for about another week and hope for the best. Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Jabba]

Continue the meds for their full course and avoid playing with the gravel.

If no improvement (and it can take a while) with your current meds do a 50% water change after the course treating the water you put in with something like Aquasafe, the following day do the same again - each time extracting as much poop and debri from the gravel as you can.

When you have done this try treating with an alternative Ich medication, for me King British WS3 or eSHA are the ones to use but with WS3 you realy really really got to pay attention because you will kill your fish if you don't, the eSHA is also good but I found their 3 day and it is fixed claim to be utter nonsense and you will need to continue for at least a week.

Remember the Ich grows on the fish but matures in the gravel where it goes on to produce 1000's of other Ich and this stage at 27/28 degrees can take three days, at lower temperatures it is longer, the only time Ich is vulnerable is when it is swimming - in the gravel and on the fish it is safe - so you need to be sure you cover all possibilities.

To be sure this situation doesn't re-occur you need to be sure you have killed everything (except the fish of course).

Fish have been shown to build immunity to this pest so it is doubly important to make sure you get it all or any new fish you put in are likely to get it. According to the science I have read Ich CANNOT live in your tank in a dormant state, if it is in your tank you didn't kill it properly in the first place and your fish have just got a resistance to it or you introduced it on a fish.

I did 14 days of treatment followed by daily 50% water changes as my water stats have got a little messed up and my tank is going through a mini cycle.

I have the UV running now and my tank has never looked healthier .... all traces of the Ich and fungus etc are gone, even the Clown Loaches are clear so fingers crossed.