I Want To Properly Plant My 320L - Plants Have Arrived!

[ZoddyZod]

Good morning!

Now that my UPGRADEis up and running, I'm looking to increase the plant mass in there substantially, but before I go wading into pretty unfamiliar territory I first want to ensure that the current set-up will be suitable for 'fully' planted.

Here is the tank as it looks now. Just some vallis, java fern and anubius

7cm Sand substrate on top of about 1cm of cat litter

Tank runs a Fluval 305 & 405 which seems to provide pretty decent flow

2x54w T5s are lighting it (and the entire lounge) for 8hrs a day.

Liquid trace ferts are being added daily (no P or N) - I'm using 'TNC' which appears to be a TPN copycat, but cheaper.

Now, I'd like to add the following plants, but given the above, will I be needing to change anything or modify the ferts or lighting to increase the chances of success? I am NOT interested in any carbon addition at this point, so if you tell me carbon will certainly be needed I'll probably look to scrap the whole idea.

5 x Elodea Densa
1 x Aponogetum Crispus
5 Eleocharis Parvulus (dwarf hairgrass)
10 x mini Amazon Sword
5 x Bacopa Monnerii
5 x Twisted Vallisneria
10 x Sagittaria Natans
5 x Rotalla Indica

5 x Cabomba Caroliniana
5 x Cryptocoryne Wendtii
5 x Hygrophilia Polysperma
5 x Ludwigia Mullertii

5 x Vallisneria Spiralis
5 x Ludwigia Natans
10 x Mayaca Fluviatilas

5 x Rotala Macranda
5 x Hydrilla Verticillata
5 x Echinodorus Latifolius

 

[da7thson]

Hi there,

If you don't mind me asking, what are the tall grass like plants you have at the back. They look really nice?

cheers

Andy

 

[ZoddyZod]

Hi there,

If you don't mind me asking, what are the tall grass like plants you have at the back. They look really nice?

cheers

Andy

Vallisneria spiralis

 

[RadaR]

I'd give all those plants a try apart from Rotala Macranda. I don't think it would be successful without carbon and macro nutrient addition.
Keep the lighting the same. Fortunatly the lights are suspended at quite a distance above the tank so the PAR levels will have dropped considerably. If they were only a few inches from the surface you'd have no chance because you'd be over run with algae.

 

[Katch]

Root tabs! TPN+ capsules are nice but any would be good. You have an inert substrate so adding some good tabs to the base of your stems and rosettes will help them a lot.

 

[ZoddyZod]

I'd give all those plants a try apart from Rotala Macranda. I don't think it would be successful without carbon and macro nutrient addition.
Keep the lighting the same. Fortunatly the lights are suspended at quite a distance above the tank so the PAR levels will have dropped considerably. If they were only a few inches from the surface you'd have no chance because you'd be over run with algae.

marvelous!

The list of plants is a 'job lot' that's available on plantsalive. Only £15 for all of them and after doing a bit of research I did find most of them seem to fit into the 'easier' plants category.

What about location for each of these, inj terms of back, mid and foreground?

Root tabs! TPN+ capsules are nice but any would be good. You have an inert substrate so adding some good tabs to the base of your stems and rosettes will help them a lot.

already got a pack in there, but will probably add more.

Was hoping the clay cat litter would absorb some of the nutrients i'm dosing into the water column as well.

 

[stu40]

The list of plants is a 'job lot' that's available on plantsalive. Only £15 for all of them and after doing a bit of research I did find most of them seem to fit into the 'easier' plants category.

wonder where you got that idea from?

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What about location for each of these, inj terms of back, mid and foreground?

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[font="arial][size="2"]try looking at this Tropica & here PARC[/size][/font][font="arial][size="2"] (scroll down page to George Farmer post)[/size][/font]

Keep an eye on the Cabomba many people struggle to keep it in the long term (it needs softer water i think), also when i grew E.densa it grew really well until i put the water temp up above 25°.
If you've still got the Bolivians, i'm guessing your water may be too warm for it.
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[size="2"]Good luck[/size]

 

[ZoddyZod]

wonder where you got that idea from?

actually, I'll have you know that I found plantsalive quite a while ago and had already posted a thread about these plants so ....

will check the Tropic site out.....cheers!

Had the same experience with cabomba, went mad then thinned out and died off.

My water sits around the 24-25c mark.

 

[Katch]

Was hoping the clay cat litter would absorb some of the nutrients i'm dosing into the water column as well.

It actually adsorbs not absorbs. You can think of the clay like a plate that can hold the nutrients from the water collumn. The plants can then take what they want off the plate. The plates however can only hold so much, so one nutrient has the potential to push off another.

The size of the plate is the Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC)- cations being the positively charged nutrient particles.

Note massively interesting but, well, there it is.

 

[ZoddyZod]

It actually adsorbs not absorbs. You can think of the clay like a plate that can hold the nutrients from the water collumn. The plants can then take what they want off the plate. The plates however can only hold so much, so one nutrient has the potential to push off another.

The size of the plate is the Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC)- cations being the positively charged nutrient particles.

Note massively interesting but, well, there it is.

a nice simple analogy

although I think your comment pretty much sums up why I find the world of planted tanks a bit of a mystery....

 

[Katch]

It actually adsorbs not absorbs. You can think of the clay like a plate that can hold the nutrients from the water collumn. The plants can then take what they want off the plate. The plates however can only hold so much, so one nutrient has the potential to push off another.

The size of the plate is the Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC)- cations being the positively charged nutrient particles.

Note massively interesting but, well, there it is.

a nice simple analogy

although I think your comment pretty much sums up why I find the world of planted tanks a bit of a mystery....

I think you can take planted tanks on 1 of 2 levels.

1. Like a cook. There are recipies that work. Collect the ingredients and mix in the correct quantities orders etc and bake at the right temperature.

2. Biologist - this is where the crazy talk of ions and CEC and positively charged this and that start cropping up.

If followed correctly both lead to the desired goal; a tank full of green and healthy plants.

 

[ZoddyZod]

I think you can take planted tanks on 1 of 2 levels.

1. Like a cook. There are recipies that work. Collect the ingredients and mix in the correct quantities orders etc and bake at the right temperature.

2. Biologist - this is where the crazy talk of ions and CEC and positively charged this and that start cropping up.

If followed correctly both lead to the desired goal; a tank full of green and healthy plants.

I've always tried to follow option 1, but even then it doesn't seem that there are any simple and fool proof formulas out there that work 100% of the time....it seems a much more 'play it by ear' type system and nothing is guarenteed.

I will openly admit that the plants hold little interest to me. I want the tank to look nice and provide a suitable habitat for the fish, but successfully flowering, 'pearling' etc. any of them holds little appeal. Since I'm someone who finds it very easy to learn about a subject of interest, but very difficult if not interested.....this is a problem!

 

[Katch]

I've always tried to follow option 1, but even then it doesn't seem that there are any simple and fool proof formulas out there that work 100% of the time....it seems a much more 'play it by ear' type system and nothing is guarenteed.

Your setup shouldn't be too hard to maintain. A few ferts not too much light, good circulation and stay ontop of your tank mantainence.

 

[RadaR]

Rather than the plants simply not liking the higher 20s, you'll find that they start to suffer from either lack of nutrients or CO2. Why? A higher temperature will speed up the plant's metabollic waste (just like CO2 does) and therefore the plant will demand more CO2 and nutrients. So, it's not neccasarily the temperature directly killing the plant, but the secondary effect of demanding more resources and not getting them. Obviously there will be a point where the temperature is too high and denatures the plant structure.
Only plant I know to prefer soft water is Tonina sp.

 

[stu40]

i'll take your word on the science, however i didn't say the E.densa would die, just that it didn't do as well after i put the temp up.In fact i still have some, it just doesn't grow as well as before.If at all.

As for Cabomba, i'm not the only person to struggle with it over time, i'm unsure about its requirements that why i used 'i think'.

I think the point of the OP was that 'ZZ' is easing himself into plants, surely flagging potential problems (albeit through anecdotal experience, rather than the science) is helpful.