I Need Help With My Cycle :-(

[MattNI]

Hi everyone. Im in desperate need of advice.
 
I have been cycling my tank now since the 16th May and my ammonia levels have been the same since then. I have a Interpet Fish Pod 64ltr Tank.
 
Current readings are:
pH: 8.0
Ammonia: Somewhere between 2-4ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Tank temp: 28 degrees celcius
 
I have been patient up to now but its been almost 6 weeks so surely something should be happening? What should I do next?
 
Regards, Matt
 

 

[Mamashack]

 to TFF, Matt!
You could try notching the temp up to 30°C and adding an air stone or bar, anything to cause a lot of rippling at the water surface to improve the oxygenation for the bacteria you are trying to promote.
Are you adding daily ammonia or doing the add and wait method?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Could you please provide a bit more information and try to make it as specific as possible. Brand names help.
 
What is the source of the water in the tank?
What type, how much and how often did you add ammonia?
Are any other additives of any kind being used, include dechlor?
Have you always gotten these exact same readings?
What test kits are you using?
 
I am sure the answers to the above will result in a few more Qs, but at least they provide a good starting point.

 

[MattNI]

Mamashack - I am using the add and wait method.
 
Twotankamin - I have used tap water for the tank and added Interpet Tapsafe at the time. I also added Interpet Filter Start and followed the instructions by adding it every 2 days for 2weeks.
The ammonia i bought I found on ebay from a link on this forum: http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181130184497. From the calculations i added just slightly less that 1ml to bring it up to 5ppm. My first reading was somewhere between the 4.0ppm and 8.0ppm on the colour chart. Sometimes I find it hard to tell what the reading are as the colours on the chart are very similar.
 
I used the API Freshwater master Test kit for these results.
 
Thanks for your replies.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You added too much ammonia. That is at the heart of things.
 
Something is wrong in what you are reporting. I am going to have to make some assumptions because there is a huge difference between 4 and 8 ppm. You likely had closer to 8 than to 4 to start, but over 4 for sure. Its now down below 4 but above 2. You managed to have some number of ppms of ammonia disappear. Only 3 ways for that to happen:
 
1. You did water change(s).
2. Live plants are involved.
3. It turned to nitrite and some of that to nitrate.
 
Filter start is a pond product and I can not find out what is supposed to be in it. So this may be an issue affecting things. Can you let me know what the label states the bottle contains, I want to know what type of bacteria is in it.
 
I see a few explanations of what might be going on but it's too soon to know which one is the correct one.
 
Have you tested for nitrite? If so, when and what did it read?

 

[Mamashack]

Current practice is to get the ammonia level to 2ppm rather than the 5ppm stated on the TFF calculator and the articles which I believe are currently being rewritten.
On a practical note you could do a 50% water change as soon as you can to get the ammonia levels down to 1-2ppm and then wait. Don't add any more of the filter start. If you could get some mature filter media or even gravel from a mature tank, that would kick start the process as there would be some helpful bacteria already present in them . If you have a friend who would be willing to donate not more than a third of their filter media then that would be a massive help. Any more than a third and their tank would be compromised. Same goes for the gravel altho the majority of the bacteria are to be found in the filter.
Transporting the filter media, you'd need to keep the media wet so that it isn't compromised. You may be told it doesn't really matter but in my opinion, better safe than sorry.
 Have you any idea what you'd like to keep in your tank once it's fully cycled?

 

[attibones]

Your pH looks kind of high, too. It doesn't necessarily appear to be so high that it is stalling the cycle, but it could be a contributing factor if your pH raised after putting in the tank. What is your tap water pH? What do you have in the tank now (any plants, woods, stones, etc)? Have you done a water change recently?

Something definitely should be happening. I wonder about the pH because my sister had a similar conundrum with the fry tank. We realized later that the stones in the tank caused the pH to rise well above our tap pH, thereby stalling the cycle.

 

[the_lock_man]

Atti, you need a high pH for fishless cycling - the bacteria multiply better at high pH. We recommend sodium bicarbonate to artificially increase pH if it's too low. A low pH will stall a cycle.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

1. None of the numbers reported are certain ammonia between 4 and 8 ppm is not real helpful, ammonia between 2 and 4 is not helpful.
2. No information is given about testing for nitrite.
3. We have no idea what was in the addtive.
 
It is great that folks want to help, but this is not really possible if we do not know what is going on.
 
Are we getting good information? Do we know that the additive used does or does not contain nitrite oxidizers? The answer to that alone changes what might be going on in the tank. But from reading that you are supposed to add it every other day for 2 weeks it is my best guess that the best place to put the stuff is someplace made of white porcelain with a handle on it. Live nitrifying bacteria should only need to be added once.
 
matt- if you want good advice, you need to give a more accurate picture of what is going on. Failing that your best bet is to start over from scratch and work with folks here to make sure you get the tank cycled.

 

[Mamashack]

I think if you are just starting out, Matt, you've done well to start with the API water test kit as quite a few seem to go for the dipsticks which are a waste of time and space as they are totally inaccurate. Admittedly the colours on API aren't always easy to distinguish, but you're not likely to have the professional stuff at this stage and are trying to give the best information you can with what you've got. So well done for that.
API does seem to be the freshwater test brand of choice for most people on here.
Try the 50% water change and run with 2ppm ammonia and keep topping up to that whenever it drops below 1 towards 0ppm. If you use the TFF calculator to work out the amount don't forget to adjust the % strength to 35 for your ammonia from Ebay and the desired level to 2ppm (it defaults to 5 but is easily adjusted). If your tank water tests at 0.5ppm adjust the calculator to 1.5ppm to account for the existing ammonia left.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[MattNI]

You added too much ammonia. That is at the heart of things.
 
Something is wrong in what you are reporting. I am going to have to make some assumptions because there is a huge difference between 4 and 8 ppm. You likely had closer to 8 than to 4 to start, but over 4 for sure. Its now down below 4 but above 2. You managed to have some number of ppms of ammonia disappear. Only 3 ways for that to happen:
 
1. You did water change(s).
2. Live plants are involved.
3. It turned to nitrite and some of that to nitrate.

This most likely is what happened though I have not done a water change yet and have no live plants. Any time I have tested for Nitrite and Nitrate the results have been zero.
 

Filter start is a pond product and I can not find out what is supposed to be in it. So this may be an issue affecting things. Can you let me know what the label states the bottle contains, I want to know what type of bacteria is in it.

The box says for use in coldwater and tropical freshwater aquariums. Nowhere on the label can i see what it contains other than 'a pure culture of safe, effective bacteria'
 

Current practice is to get the ammonia level to 2ppm rather than the 5ppm stated on the TFF calculator and the articles which I believe are currently being rewritten.
On a practical note you could do a 50% water change as soon as you can to get the ammonia levels down to 1-2ppm and then wait. Don't add any more of the filter start. If you could get some mature filter media or even gravel from a mature tank, that would kick start the process as there would be some helpful bacteria already present in them . If you have a friend who would be willing to donate not more than a third of their filter media then that would be a massive help.

Think I will do this immediately then if you think this should be the 'next step'. Unfortunatley I do not know anyone else with a fish tank so I would be unable to get some mature filter media.
 
 

1. None of the numbers reported are certain ammonia between 4 and 8 ppm is not real helpful, ammonia between 2 and 4 is not helpful.
2. No information is given about testing for nitrite.
3. We have no idea what was in the addtive.
 
It is great that folks want to help, but this is not really possible if we do not know what is going on.
 
Are we getting good information? Do we know that the additive used does or does not contain nitrite oxidizers? The answer to that alone changes what might be going on in the tank. But from reading that you are supposed to add it every other day for 2 weeks it is my best guess that the best place to put the stuff is someplace made of white porcelain with a handle on it. Live nitrifying bacteria should only need to be added once.
 
matt- if you want good advice, you need to give a more accurate picture of what is going on. Failing that your best bet is to start over from scratch and work with folks here to make sure you get the tank cycled.

1. Im sorry that my info is not quite as 'helpful' as you are expecting but I am only going by the API test kit colour chart which in itself is only gives colour options of:
0ppm, 0.25ppm, 0.50ppm, 1.0ppm, 2.0ppm, 4.0ppm, 8.0ppm. It wasn't 4 and it wasn't 8 so must have been somewhere in between.
 
2. I stated in my first post that my Nitrite reading was zero, maybe I should have expanded on this. I presumed I wouldnt need to test for this regularly unless I seen my Ammonia levels go down. A couple of times I did test for it just for something to do and the readings were always zero.
 
As I am new to this hobby I was only following the instructions of these products that came with the tank. I'm doing my best to try and provide everyone with as much information as I can and I do appreciate the feedback from everyone.
 
 

I think if you are just starting out, Matt, you've done well to start with the API water test kit as quite a few seem to go for the dipsticks which are a waste of time and space as they are totally inaccurate. Admittedly the colours on API aren't always easy to distinguish, but you're not likely to have the professional stuff at this stage and are trying to give the best information you can with what you've got. So well done for that.
API does seem to be the freshwater test brand of choice for most people on here.
Try the 50% water change and run with 2ppm ammonia and keep topping up to that whenever it drops below 1 towards 0ppm. If you use the TFF calculator to work out the amount don't forget to adjust the % strength to 35 for your ammonia from Ebay and the desired level to 2ppm (it defaults to 5 but is easily adjusted). If your tank water tests at 0.5ppm adjust the calculator to 1.5ppm to account for the existing ammonia left.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Thanks for this. I will do the water change and hopefully will start to see things happening soon enough.

 

[daizeUK]

This sounds like deja vu to me.  I was in exactly your position five months ago; Interpet fish box 64L, pH 8.0, Filter Start and some specialised aquarium ammonia that I'd bought on ebay (BioMature in my case).  My ammonia absolutely refused to drop.
 
TwoTankAmin helped me through that and I suspect he has got it right - the underlying reason is a high strength ammonia source combined with inability of API to read the true ammonia levels accurately.
 
I hope you have better success!  Good luck

 

[MattNI]

Excellent news. Hope you are getting on well with everything now

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Matt- the thing is your ammonia level has dropped from where it started to where it is now. As I pointed out ammonia won't simply vanish. So it must have gone to nitrite. The reason I asked if you could find out what was in the bottle is I was looking for live nitrite oxidizing bacteria to be listed. If it did actually contain them they could have held the nitrite down. But you were not seriously testing for nitrite along the way, as I have now learned from your subsequent posts. There was no way for me to know from your posts that you had tested for it some, regularly or just the once. Moreover, testing for it a couple of times doesn't tell much. You may not be aware of it, but there are patterns that ammonia, nitrite and nitrate follow during a cycle. Having a series of test numbers and knowing when they were taken is most helpful in determining what is going on.
 
For, the most part I am not a fan of all but a very few bottled bacteria products. I was trying to find out if the product you added contained any live bacteria at all and if any were the desired nitrite oxidizing ones.
 
I would still recommend the following- drain the tank as low as possible and refill it with dechlorinated water. Let It run for a bit and then test for ammonia and nitrite. Hopefully, you will read 0/0. (If you do not, change more water.) Then add enough ammonia, according the the calc, to get you to 3 ppm and no more (from 0 w/ your ammonia that is .5 ml*). After you add the ammonia wait about 10 minutes for it to mix and test for ammonia to see what the actual level is.(I would take the bottle of Filter Start and put it someplace you can not find it again.)
 
Wait 24 hours and test the ammonia again. If it has clearly dropped, test for nitrite. If ammonia has not dropped wait 24 again and test again.
 
If you have any ammonia oxidizing bacteria, the ammonia should drop so that you can see it happening inside a few days or less. If your ammonia drops, you should see nitrite unless you already have nitrite oxidizing bacteria established. If you decide to do what I have suggested, be sure to write down how much ammonia you added and also all your test results. This way you will have a better handle on what is going on and you can also post it here. This will tell you exactly where you stand re bacteria. I would not add any more ammonia after the 3 ppm until you see nitrite appear, move up and start coming down. If the ammonia level drops to 0 and no nitrite readings show along the way, it means you would have to have nitrite bacteria established already.
 
Good luck with it.
 
 
* I used 60 liters not 64 as tanks are never filled to the very top edge and also contain other things which displace water.

 

[MattNI]

Thanks for your post, it is very helpful. I will do as you say and hopefully i will see a change in the readings.